Any atheists out there who are drawn to the aesthetic of church?

[Forion]

I was a Roman Catholic, but totally struggled with believing in God etc. I gave up going to church years ago, but I still love the Catholic Church, hymns, music, the buildings, prayers, incense etc. I wasn't interested in the social side of things so didn't get anything out of that.

I know some people will say that it's God trying to draw me in, but honestly, I can't believe in any of that even though I've tried I can't force myself and I don't even like other people let alone love them 😄

Anybody else experienced this?

LOVE grrrrr 🙄

Yes! I love the architecture, the art, the music, the tradition and sense of history, the ceremony, etc - but I don't do the the God bit!

@521Jeanie

Yes! I love the architecture, the art, the music, the tradition and sense of history, the ceremony, etc - but I don't do the the God bit!

Sorry, sent off too soon. But in no way would I describe myself as culturally Christian. I'm not interested in the religion aspect at all, in fact I am quite turned off by it.

Yes, this is me I think. We’re currently doing the middle class hypocritical church attendance thing for DD’s Reception place, but actually while I hate any kind of dogma or the idea of DD being indoctrinated into something I don’t believe in, I do genuinely subscribe to the culturally Christian side of things and also the strong focus on community and kinship.

I guess I’d describe myself as agnostic but vaguely spiritual. I bridle at the idea of evangelical Christianity (I had a brief dalliance with the evangelical church in my youth and wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole now) and certainly reject a lot if not most of the ideas in the Bible. But the church I’m attending now is pretty high Anglican and I do find myself appreciating the building and the candles and the ritualistic side of things. The way the turn of the year is marked, self-reflection encouraged etc. And actually (in marked contrast to both militant atheism and the trendy evangelical church I used to attend) I find that there’s a tolerance of difference and an embracing of moral uncertainty that I’m quite attracted to.

And I really, really love Christmas carols. Eagerly awaiting DD’s first Christingle service next weekend.

I describe myself as culturally Christian. I have not been baptised and I don't believe in god. I do celebrate Christmas and Easter, was married in a church and baptised my children (CoE).

I love visiting churches, some of the art is beautiful. The stillness and peace is lovely. I even enjoy the odd church service.

I've visited other religious buildings and enjoyed the beauty of them as well. The Grand Mosque in Abu Dhabi was amazing to see. I feel most comfortable in a church though as while I'm not a practicing Christian I'm really not in any way Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu etc.

This is it, it's the rules.

For me it's not the rules, it's just the fact that I find the existence of god(s) utterly implausible. What I most like about the idea of religion is the feeling of community amongst people with a shared belief, and the way it can bring together people from all walks of life. I like the way religion marks the passing of the year with festivals and celebrations. I also like the idea of ritual - but not religious ritual. I loke the idea of secular monasticism for those drawn to that way of life, and of the history and scholarship that go with religious life.

Oh and (some) religious buildings (the more austere, less gaudy ones usually)and religious music too (not happy clappy stuff though!).

I think there's also an element of (super?)natural selection - religions which didn't in some way provide a transcendental experience didn't get many followers and died out. So it's not surprising that the popular religions all have ways to create special experiences, whether through architecture, music, rituals, images, communal engagement etc

Not sure whether this thread is a good place to talk about the number of practising Christians I know whose actual beliefs are probably
closer to Buddhist than Christian and who approach most of the tenets of Christian belief as metaphor (and I’m not just talking about Adam and Eve here but pretty fundamental stuff like the Resurrection)

It's when you're sitting there in church and you're instructed to believe in x,y and z and it doesn't work, that's when your mind rebels and it feels false. You can't accept the unacceptable the cognitive dissonance is too uncomfortable and even distressing.

Cognitive dissonance is a fact of life, though. If patterns are complex person has to be able to endure holding two apparently conflicting pieces of information in their minds for long enough to find the link/bridge between them - the contextual information that allows both too be true given the right circumstances. It's like imagine observing a small part of a wave formation which seems utterly predictable but then you find it is only a small part of a bigger pattern which turns back on itself. Or finding a pattern within something that was previously thought to be entirely random.

I'm a humanist but I have to admit, a cultural christian by heritage and upbringing. Every year this brings a lump to my throat- the whole idea of hope despite years and years of awfulness

Still through the cloven skies they come,
With peaceful wings unfurled,
And still their heavenly music floats
O'er all the weary world;
Above its sad and lowly plains,
They bend on hovering wing,
And ever o'er its babel sounds
The blessed angels sing.

Yet with the woes of sin and strife
The world has suffered long;
Beneath the angel-strain have rolled
Two thousand years of wrong;
And man, at war with man, hears not
The love-song which they bring;
O hush the noise, ye men of strife,
And hear the angels sing.

So imagine trying to understand omnipotence...

Of course there will be a degree of cognitive dissonance unless you are actually omnipotent! What a Christian does is rely on faith in order to lay aside for a moment what doesn't seem to make immediate sense, recognising the limitations of their own human knowledge and understanding, in order to seek further revelation of God.

the cognitive dissonance was what I experienced as a teenager on my path out of religion- I would sit in church and have an argument going on inside my head all the time, with an undercurrent of ...if I'm wrong about this will I be doomed for eternity?
Once I disassociated myself from it (and made peace with the fact that I'd upset my family) I was able to appreciate some parts of church on aesthetic grounds. But interestingly, not the church I came from (boring, plain without beauty, non conformist)- give me a centuries old C of E parish church by candle light.

the cognitive dissonance was what I experienced as a teenager on my path out of religion- I would sit in church and have an argument going on inside my head all the time, with an undercurrent of ...if I'm wrong about this will I be doomed for eternity?

But then how do you deal with exploring any subject which is complex and difficult? I think you've got to accept some cognitive dissonance along the way to understanding and being patient to enough to seek further understanding which means more of the picture starts to slot into place. And not all understanding is cognitive. Some is more instinctive, subconscious and manifests more in feelings than thought.

@StillWeRise

I'm a humanist but I have to admit, a cultural christian by heritage and upbringing. Every year this brings a lump to my throat- the whole idea of hope despite years and years of awfulness

Still through the cloven skies they come,
With peaceful wings unfurled,
And still their heavenly music floats
O'er all the weary world;
Above its sad and lowly plains,
They bend on hovering wing,
And ever o'er its babel sounds
The blessed angels sing.

Yet with the woes of sin and strife
The world has suffered long;
Beneath the angel-strain have rolled
Two thousand years of wrong;
And man, at war with man, hears not
The love-song which they bring;
O hush the noise, ye men of strife,
And hear the angels sing.

Yes, thank you for this thread. So many have articulated my feelings and given me a few other thoughts to muse on.

O hush the noise, ye men of strife,
And hear the angels sing

That's one of my favourite lines from a hymn ever. Says it all really.

But my angels are not men in white dresses with wings, they're the birds and the children and all the peace-loving humans of the world who rejoice in peace.

But my angels are not men in white dresses with wings, they're the birds and the children and all the peace-loving humans of the world who rejoice in peace.

Hebrews 13:2
"Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares."

I am culturally Christian. I also believe religious practice includes lots of things that are good for humans - connection, building community, doing things for others, prayer/meditation, singing. The bad things in religion are human things too - conflict, judgement, secrecy, hurting other people, judging other people, tribalism.

I am the stoniest of stony hearted atheists now and I don't see that changing but I still react to choral music the way I always did from my early years in a church choir.

Not sure whether this thread is a good place to talk about the number of practising Christians I know whose actual beliefs are probably
closer to Buddhist than Christian and who approach most of the tenets of Christian belief as metaphor (and I’m not just talking about Adam and Eve here but pretty fundamental stuff like the Resurrection

This is interesting. I'm autistic and struggle with metaphors, so felt that the teachings needed to be taken literally. I think it would be possible to get by with approaching teachings as metaphor rather than rules, which I'm inclined to follow to the letter due to how my brain works.

I sing in a traditional church choir every Sunday, regularly read lessons and frequently act as Crucifer at church.
Been a rabid atheist for over 40 years, but I'm good at keeping that quiet from church members who might struggle with that.
I like singing, the ceremony, the language of the Old Testament and the Prayerbook, and really enjoy choral evensong.

I have met others like me .

A difficulty is that some ministers will preach sermons indicating that you have to believe key things at face value. It genuinely is a problem if you feel the idea of resurrection/eternal life is a) dumb and b) the last thing you'd want.

Interesting thread. Not an atheist exactly, more of an agnostic or non-theist I suppose but yes, I still find Christian imagery, architecture and religious-based music, choral singing and ritual very uplifting, often very moving. I also use plenty of Christian imagery in my artwork as I paint and draw. For spiritual practice, such as meditation, I tend to follow Buddhism and Buddhist teachings.

Of course there will be a degree of cognitive dissonance unless you are actually omnipotent! What a Christian does is rely on faith in order to lay aside for a moment what doesn't seem to make immediate sense, recognising the limitations of their own human knowledge and understanding, in order to seek further revelation of God.

I can't do cognitive dissonance though. My mind restlessly searches for the truth and it just can't be found - to my way of thinking anyway. I concluded that, because the truth can't be secured, then it didn't exist and I'd spent best part of 40 years wasting my time agonising over it. That's when I gave up and let it all go and I've felt much better for it. I concluded that religion wasn't for me and isn't intended for me because it's impossible to accept.