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Philosophy/religion

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Do narcissists ever suffer at all?

163 replies

Woodflower · 07/03/2021 18:42

For what they do to others, are they just gettimg away using other people for their own narcisstic joy?. So the set of people who arnt narcs are just protecting themselves while narcissists just glide through by hurting everyone in their way?.

Dealing with narcissists ideas are just a bunch of ideas to the person asking , to run away from them or brace to their charge or to start meditating.

Whats the point in being a kind human being while 'perks' are all going to narcissists?

Sorry I am asking because I want to know if karma EVER bite narcs.
Why would anyone develop a kind nature if given a choice to live life without thinking about others and just be self centered while others just dodge you as they are not capable of being so heartless.

I have seen many narcs living and dying as narcs without a regret. No regrets life. They want their children to be narcs else they will be victims for narcs.

What do you all think?

OP posts:
ItisLikethis · 10/03/2021 10:09

Dealing with someone who is clearly unwell with anxiety but doesn't seem to get any better despite lengthy therapy and I suspect their underlying narcissism is the root cause and the reason they will never actually get better. They also think the world should adapt to them and don't feel any personal responsibility to try to improve their mental health.

This is exactly what the narc I unfortunately encountered is like.

ItisLikethis · 10/03/2021 10:17

@Parkperson Except narcissists have cripplingly low self-esteem. I would agree an element of narcissism is needed to reach self-actualization, though the differences between a narc and empath is how that success is ultimately achieved.

I don't bandy around the word around nor do I attempt to diagnose 'unpleasant people' I've encountered in my life. There is a world of difference between the underhandedness and sheer wickedness of the narcissist and a simply unpleasant individual.

Notanotherfreak · 10/03/2021 10:49

@Parkperson

We all are on the spectrum with regard to narcissism. Without it, we would not have any self worth. www.businessinsider.com/narcissism-vs-narcissist-2018-11?r=US&IR=T Narciss There are many good things about narcissism www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/toxic-relationships/201910/can-narcissism-ever-be-good Labelling anyone who falls foul of you as a narcissist is dangerous. I wonder how many of the posters claiming their partners, mothers, mills, SILs are narcissists really know if they have a diagnosis. I suspect many labelled as 'narcs' on MN are just unpleasant people.
But there is ‘narcissism’ as nd ‘Narcissistic Personality Disorder’. It’s not the same thing and in absolutely no way healthy. Do you honestly think that the emotionally damaged people (me included) posting here simply have unpleasant people in their lives? I hope you never have the misfortune to ever get involved with someone with NPD, because they really not just ‘unpleasant’ people. You might not want to diminish your experience as unpleasant then!
Combandgo · 10/03/2021 11:14

This is a very interesting thread.

A close relative on my DHs side I suspect has a narcissistic personality or at least strong narc traits.

The person in question falls out with people all the time, one minute she is best friends with them, then a few months later, she's calling them all sorts of names and saying how much she dislikes them. She is emotional abusive to those close to her.

She needs to be centre of attention always and everything is done in a dramatic fashion for maximum effect. Even gift giving is a big event where you must say thank you a thousand times over. It's tiring.

If anyone dares stick up for themselves or says something back to her, she blows up, she can't stand it if she feels slighted or if you disagree with her in anyway. I have been on the receiving end once after I stuck up for myself - the shock on her face! She was forced to apologise but even the apology was not sincere ' I'm sorry you got upset' then she preceded to tell me how it's been awful for her and shes lost weight with stress etc etc...everything comes back to her.

She is very manipulative and controlling to her husband who is a shell of the man he used to be. She puts him down constantly and has over the years tried to alienate him from his own children, it's like she wants full control of him. He doesn't even use his mobile as she wants to know what he is doing, she controls the money, everything.
Her behaviour is actually very dark and disturbing but we don't know what to do? We all know she's not a nice person but she's close family so everyone treads very carefully..

She is capable of being very charming, funny and normal at times, then will switch to being snide and passive aggressive the next time.

I agree with other pps on here - narcissists are never happy, they are miserable inside and out but it's always someone's else's fault, they are always the victim. It's like they cannot bare to admit they are wrong. There is no accountability.

It must indeed be a very lĺsad life for them.

Labobo · 10/03/2021 11:30

@Parkperson, I understand why you'd be wary of people using the word without diagnosis but many aren't diagnosed. Those of us who use it note staggeringly similar patterns of behaviour. Classic symptoms include:
rage, absolute fury, if you disagree with them on anything, even the colour of a dress someone wore to a party. And especially on an opinion. They can't countenance an opinion other than their own because they feel it invalidates them entirely. Saying "You like apricots, I don't" to a narc is like saying, "I hate you!"

They cannot apologise. Ever. Again, it's a hill they will die on. Apologising is like saying: "You have all the power and I have none, now you will Lord it over me." They have no notion that it's fine to be wrong, apologise and move on.

Most crucially I find, other people aren't quite real to them. They have no empathy. So they can't understand that a small child might need the loo or a nap at an inconvenient time. Once they retire they have no concept that people at work can't drop everything to run them a minor errand. No one except the narc can express emotions, but the narcs emotional needs must be met by everyone at all times because they are such sensitive people.

They show very superficial interest in family members. They will rapidly trawl for bragging rights news and often big you up to neighbours etc which makes people think they care about you and are proud of you but actually show zero interest in your real life or needs.

What I find is that the people on MN who say they have narc parents or spouses have sustained examples of all of the above. These are key characteristics all narcs have in common which are not normal behaviour. They may be rich, poor, introverted, extroverted, publicly charming or difficult, intelligent or dim, but these are core traits.

Parkperson · 10/03/2021 11:41

As I understand it, people who have a diagnosis of NPD are very rare. I just looked it up and the percentage quote is 0.5% in terms of population. It is just not feasible that the term narcissist applied so widely to a huge range of people is accurate. It has become used as a term of abuse to describe unpleasant colleagues, friends, family members.

PandemicAtTheDisco · 10/03/2021 11:50

@Fargonauts

Dealing with someone who is clearly unwell with anxiety but doesn't seem to get any better despite lengthy therapy and I suspect their underlying narcissism is the root cause and the reason they will never actually get better. They also think the world should adapt to them and don't feel any personal responsibility to try to improve their mental health.
This is spot on. Despite years spent trying to help them feel better - I feel we have made no progress whatsoever. They won't even take any prescribed medicines and refuse any form of therapy.

They really don't feel any personal responsibility to try to improve their mental health - because they don't think there is anything wrong with them. It is everyone else that is making them feel bad.

Themostwonderfultimeoftheyear · 10/03/2021 11:59

The thing is it is extremely rare for a narcissist to be diagnosed because that would mean they admitted something was wrong and sought help which narcissists just don't do. I believe it is a very under diagnosed condition.

My narc isn't diagnosed but she came into my family and within a couple of years had torn it apart. She countenanced no opinion other than her own, forced people to abide by her rules and manipulated people into turning on each other in order to win her favour. I have never heard her apologise, laugh, cry or express any emotion other than anger/neutrality. Maybe she isn't a narcissist but I believe she is and even if she isn't she is the closest thing to evil I have ever encountered.

Coronawireless · 10/03/2021 12:00

Projection being a behaviour of a narcissist, I suspect that one or two of the posters here who are calling their enemies narcissists may be labelling the wrong person.

Aalvarino · 10/03/2021 12:34

My narcissist was an evangelical Christian!

Aalvarino · 10/03/2021 12:38

@Coronawireless que?? Mine for one had a dual actual diagnosis of EUPD/NPD. Except according to him it was everyone else who needed to look closely at themselves.... Oh.

Notanotherfreak · 10/03/2021 12:48

@Parkperson I’m not surprised at that statistic. You’ll be hard pressed to get someone with NPD to have therapy, and to agree to have therapy/testing for NPD would be an abhorrent to them. If you did get someone with NPD to agree it would be extremely hard to get a diagnosis as they lie and manipulate and are highly skilled at pretending to be someone they are not. Imagine Donald Trump agreeing to be tested for NPD and you might get my gist. It would just never happen.

FreeAt50 · 10/03/2021 12:52

In my experience, they can experience realisation, hurt, acknowledgement and regret for their actions. However its a long road to travel and often too painful for those involved to deal with the psychological issues that lead to it.
All of this doesn't mean they can, will or even WANT to change their ways, I guess.

PandemicAtTheDisco · 10/03/2021 13:52

My narc retells a story where her actions show she clearly failed at caring for one of her children. Hindsight shows that she made the wrong decision and her child suffered as a consequence.

That child is owed acknowledgement that she was wrong to do what she did, an apology is owed but hasn't been given because 'what use will it be? It won't change anything.

If you wrong someone then most people feel a need to make reparations. She has no thought to try and make amends. She just laments that her making the wrong choice had consequences, She won't make any steps to improve the relationship.

ItisLikethis · 11/03/2021 10:18

Am still thinking about this thread, now and again the narc pops up into my thoughts. I pity them and have prayed for them a couple of times. Seems ridiculous when I think of how wicked they were to me.

Ruminating2020 · 11/03/2021 15:05

@ItisLikethis

Am still thinking about this thread, now and again the narc pops up into my thoughts. I pity them and have prayed for them a couple of times. Seems ridiculous when I think of how wicked they were to me.
Not at all ridiculous to pray for the narc. I have during my time of knowing them and after as well and even now, 10 years after the last hoover attempt, I sometimes pray for the narc. You pity them because you have empathy and compassion, even if they have been cruel to you.

The narc assaulted me and even months down the line, for some twisted reason, I missed them and felt sorry for them but at the same time I felt repulsed by them. I don't know how else to explain it other than maybe it was trauma bond.

JanFebAnyMonth · 13/03/2021 10:48

I've always said that the inside of my ex's head must be a really horrible place to be.

Just think logically for a moment, how low must your self esteem be, to be so scared of actually putting anyone else's feelings and well being, even a child's, above your own?

roundturnandtwohalfhitches · 13/03/2021 11:11

The narc in my life went through contant periods of depression when the dramas he created ended - when he was found out or someone walked away. He constantly needed that fix of manipulation to make him feel good about himself.
Lockdown was a horror for him. His business partner had just walked away and blocked him after years of shit, his other job had called him out for being involved in bullying and he was about to go into full blown revenge mode when lockdown pulled the rug from under his feet.
He couldn't cope. His cycle of behaviour had been interrupted. He ended up v angry at the world and then depressed. His need to manipulate was so great he turned on me, who was what passed for his bestie and was helping him out. I just refused to play the game and he ended a 6 year friendship.
His absolute need to make someone else suffer to relieve his suffering was just astonishing.
I have heard on the grapevine he's started his nonsense up in another group of friends so maybe he's feeling better now he's ruining someone else's life.
All this is hindsight. I just thought he was troubled at the time until I read a book about covert narcissists and it was like someone had written a book about him. Wish I'd come across it sooner.

ToffeeNotCoffee · 13/03/2021 13:17

His absolute need to make someone else suffer to relieve his suffering was just astonishing.

Thank you. Yet another, 'light bulb' for me regarding narcs behaviour.

I used to envy their no regrets attitude. Until I realised no regrets just means, 'fuck you.'

Helocariad · 13/03/2021 16:54

@ToffeeNotCoffee

His absolute need to make someone else suffer to relieve his suffering was just astonishing.

Thank you. Yet another, 'light bulb' for me regarding narcs behaviour.

I used to envy their no regrets attitude. Until I realised no regrets just means, 'fuck you.'

Same here. The narc I had to deal with was my boss. In and out of depression she went and she always seemed to feel better, even gleeful, when there was someone she could scapegoat.
Ruminating2020 · 13/03/2021 18:06

I think the narcissist suffers as long there is a lack of supply/target/victim.

They suffer when you call them out and when you refuse to be controlled by them.

LairyFrogMother · 16/03/2021 15:00

I was told by my therapist to just stop trying to gain recognition for the hurt caused by my narc mother. It was a bitter pill to swallow but helped loads.

DeepThinkingGirl · 16/03/2021 19:55

LairyFrogMother

They’re incapable of empathy but that’s probably because they were never given it when they were most vulnerable and so grew up feeling like they can only relate to vulnerable people and that when they do they can’t give them empathy but instead materialistic form of love and support and a total lack of connection.

They are already suffering. They have already suffered. That’s why they’re like this.

We are the lucky ones for having a better start to life or for having a better ability to process a difficult childhood where we didn’t take the lack of empathy to become our identity.. we dissociated the way we were treated form our identity and accepted to be our own entity not enmeshed in our emotionaly absent parent.

Freedom from the victim role is the best thing we have done for ourselves..

And it’s the best empathetic lesson we can send in their direction so they can hopefully one day take themselves out of this self loathing identity they adopted from their own toxic childhood.

Narcissists are injured souls who are coping by dissociating from those closests to them because they grew up feeling intimidated by those closest to them.

They’re not giving themselves the Opportunity to grow out of that bubble.. and the best thing we can do is provide resistance so that they don’t have the opportunity to stay in their toxic comfort zone and instead force themselves to explore their internal issues and come to terms with their inner monster and overcome it..

They’re defianately suffering. Just in a way that they learn how to cope with and so they feel you can manage it too.. if they managed to internalise bad treatment from people they loved then if you love them you should too, that’s how they think. They’re deserving of love and if you reject them they will unleash their anger that they built up from years long frustrations on you, because they can scapegoat you since unlike a parent in their childhood they couldn’t unleash it on them but you on the other hand, they can.

Show them that they cannot. Walk away.. leave them with their own internal struggle until they seek therapy. For their own benefit and for the benefit of everyone around them.

If another victim decided to throw themselves under their control it is only gonna delay their process of healing further. And make them have more baggage of things to heal from.

Walk away. And be sure they’re the ones struggling for sure. You just need to not internalise it and seperate your identity from their behaviour.

“I do not deserve all that negativity”.
“I deserve love and kindness, and I will give it to myself”.
“ I do not see myself as the victim that the narc sees me, I see the survivor in me”.

pineapplesareyellow · 27/03/2021 18:11

This is a really interesting read for me. I've had a terrible few months with my step daughter which has driven me to counselling and left me with sky high anxiety having never been an anxious person before. This week my counsellor suggested that SD sounds like she has narcissistic traits and reading through this and other things online I now agree 100%.
@Labobo 's post, and others, really resonate so much.

Without wishing to hijack the thread, if anyone could post or dm me any useful links or tips I would really appreciate it. I'm at my wits end of knowing how to handle this situation and to stop her coming between me and her dad (my DP).

I really appreciate anything anyone can offer or insights. Thank you :)

hedrivesmecrazy · 28/03/2021 09:37

@pineapplesareyellow

This is a really interesting read for me. I've had a terrible few months with my step daughter which has driven me to counselling and left me with sky high anxiety having never been an anxious person before. This week my counsellor suggested that SD sounds like she has narcissistic traits and reading through this and other things online I now agree 100%. *@Labobo* 's post, and others, really resonate so much.

Without wishing to hijack the thread, if anyone could post or dm me any useful links or tips I would really appreciate it. I'm at my wits end of knowing how to handle this situation and to stop her coming between me and her dad (my DP).

I really appreciate anything anyone can offer or insights. Thank you :)

There are lots of YouTube videos on how to deal with Narcissistic people. I think the more you learn about it the easier it is to deal with these people. I've found these videos to be a great help particularly Stephanie Lyn Coaching. Sorry you're going through this 💐