Do narcissists ever suffer at all?

[Woodflower]

For what they do to others, are they just gettimg away using other people for their own narcisstic joy?. So the set of people who arnt narcs are just protecting themselves while narcissists just glide through by hurting everyone in their way?.

Dealing with narcissists ideas are just a bunch of ideas to the person asking , to run away from them or brace to their charge or to start meditating.

Whats the point in being a kind human being while 'perks' are all going to narcissists?

Sorry I am asking because I want to know if karma EVER bite narcs.
Why would anyone develop a kind nature if given a choice to live life without thinking about others and just be self centered while others just dodge you as they are not capable of being so heartless.

I have seen many narcs living and dying as narcs without a regret. No regrets life. They want their children to be narcs else they will be victims for narcs.

What do you all think?

@Babdoc

Narcissists are usually very thin skinned and can’t bear people laughing at them. They are oblivious to other people’s feelings but incredibly sensitive to any attack on their own - hence the tantrums if they ever get thwarted or crossed. Might it help you to consider them as neurodevelopmentally abnormal, OP? That they can’t help their total lack of empathy, they are just born that way. It’s not really a moral issue, and they merit neither punishment nor sympathy for simply being what they are.

This.

My mother was a diagnosed narcissist and nothing bad ever happened to her, she just went through life hurting everyone and being shielded by Dad who protected her from anyone who dared to call her out ( which made her cry of course). She lived and died in her own world and was never , to my knowledge, aware of her own character.

I've met someone with traits. I assumed an ex was one he is a psychopath.
I don't think I have ever met a full-on narcissist.

I got into a Google spiral and found a lovely, very inspiring post on Quora.

Link here: qr.ae/pNLsR4

It says:

How do you make a narcissist go crazy for what they have done to you?
The whole point of narcissistic abuse is you going crazy. And now you really are going crazy thinking of ways how to make a narcissist crazy, because the abuse they’ve done is beyond compare. I don’t judge you for wanting a narcissist to suffer because I’ve been there, I’ve had these feelings. Most of us here have been seriously contemplating some type of revenge at one point.

I know that this is probably not the answer you are looking for, but it’s the only truth you need. And until you accept that truth, you won’t be able to move on from wanting to “win”, get an upper hand or revenge on a narcissist. You won’t be able to stop wishing harm to them. Because this isn’t you, you’re not the kind of person who cares about “winning” a game with anyone really. You may even wonder how did you even get into this state where you want to have revenge on someone? You know you’re better than that. And much simpler, because the things you want are simple - you want justice, equality, sense of peace. You just want to get your old self back and erase this chapter from your life. You want to live. And still, you may be convinced that if you manage somehow to hurt a narcissist, you will feel better.

Here’s the thing;
All of the bad things that you can think of trying to do to a narcissist (you name them - harassing, stalking, hacking, sending long essays, long e-mails about how they suck or how they hurt you, being angry in front of their face, trying to manipulate them, telling them they are a Narcissist, “exposing them”, laughing at them, blocking-deleting-blocking-deleting, being salty or shady, throwing eggs at their house, for god’s sake even pulling off their pants in public) just won’t work. Because all those things make you FOCUSED on a narcissist. And (I’m not even exaggerating), your focus on them is their #1 reason to live. Their living and breathing depends on you being ensnared and obsessed by them, either in a positive or negative way. They want you to waste your time on them, they can only benefit from you actively trying to make them feel your hurt and that’s exactly one thing you should avoid doing.

You must embrace the fact that you’re living in a new awareness now once you’ve learnt about Narcissism. I’m sure you wonder “Why me, why was I the one who had to go through this? I did not deserve this abuse.” And you’re right, you didn’t deserve this. Nothing in your life prepared you for it. No one in this world can apologize for it, ever. But by living in your new awareness and having the knowledge and the experience you had, you’ll be 100 times more careful with people you let in your life from now on. If you mentally survived this, you can survive anything. You’ve championed this and there is nothing to fear anymore. You know what kind of life you want to live from now on.

A narcissist cannot be changed by you and honestly, they shouldn’t be changed by you. Your life’s purpose is not to take care of a sad little insecure kid living in an adult body. I’m sure your life’s purpose is much greater and more significant than that. Go on and live your best life, and somewhere beneath those layers, I assure you it’s going to play out as your winning moment for a life time. Yes they will sense you have moved on and it will be enormously effective. Because this is the type of “revenge” you won’t be putting any thoughts or effort into, you’re just going to be you, yourself – living your best beautiful life unapologetically. That’s how you move on and at the same time, make a narcissist go crazy without actually even trying, because you decided that there’s no place for them in your new life anymore. And you know what is the most beautiful thing? Once you reach that point where you’re living your true life, you won’t even care if they go crazy or not. You just will not care because you will realize that your life is worth so much more than focusing on this hollow & miserable wax figure we call a narcissist.

What you need now is detachment and healing. Go and read everything you can about being No Contact and take it into action, do it properly. Learn from the damage that was done to you and remind yourself what kind of loving and empathetic person you are. Arm yourself with knowledge and you will find your own closure. Bring the focus back on you and all those things awaiting you to love them will come naturally, as you’re holding the brush and painting your new reality 🕊

Hey all,

Excellent discussion. I am learning while reading.

Someone asked if non-narcs become one after staying with them. I know someone who is very close to me living with a narc since 15yrs. The H has helped all his lady friends get a job but not his wife. Always puts her down and praised her for giving up her career until she firmly wanted to be financially independant because he was all 'my money, my take'... he has now turned upon her.

So everything was hunky dory until it happened the way he wanted.

She is still normal and teaching her kids the grace of kindness and empathy. She has given herself 4yrs of time and ahe will move on she said. Its a long time yes but she needs to build herslef as the country she lives in dosnt bother on much of citizen support.

A big THANKYOU all for your opinions.. keep em coming

"My mother was a diagnosed narcissist and nothing bad ever happened to her, she just went through life hurting everyone and being shielded by Dad who protected her from anyone who dared to call her out ( which made her cry of course). She lived and died in her own world and was never , to my knowledge, aware of her own character."

@starrynight21 this is what I started discussing. It makes it worse if someone is protecting a narcissist. Parents/Spouse, I am sure they are not any less of narcs to ignore what these people do to others.

I have seen families where narcs raise narcs and then feel accomplished because now they are 'invincible and distructive' at the same time.

There should be some super power non-narcs can aquire to just slam them down? On this, I think @MacbookHoHoHo has given some insight there :). I dont think a genuine human can ever do what narcs do, because our guilt and empathy will NEVER forgive us. We have to find a way that suits us to thrive against narcs ( I am still learning on this thou).

I honestly think the best thing we could do is focus on becoming the best, most successful, happy and flourishing people we could possibly be. Not in a half-hearted way, but in a real chased by bats out of Hell type way.

Let’s channel the rage we feel about these people directly into our work, kids, marriages, other friendships, personal growth, looks, fitness, homes, health and prosperity. Initially our motivation will simply be to really annoy them 😂 But ultimately we can rise to a place where we no longer care about them in any way. Where they’re a mere blip in our lives’ rear-view mirrors.

Every step we take towards success will really, really piss them off. And we’ll be too busy and fulfilled to even NOTICE.

I turned my back on my narc a year ago exactly and am now 100% focused on me and building my life. I have no idea if my narc is suffering nor do I care.

Having experienced the joy and wonder of unconditional love and support I am making a guess they do suffer for lack of it but they will never admit that even to themselves.

@MacbookHoHoHo

I honestly think the best thing we could do is focus on becoming the best, most successful, happy and flourishing people we could possibly be. Not in a half-hearted way, but in a real chased by bats out of Hell type way.

Let’s channel the rage we feel about these people directly into our work, kids, marriages, other friendships, personal growth, looks, fitness, homes, health and prosperity. Initially our motivation will simply be to really annoy them 😂 But ultimately we can rise to a place where we no longer care about them in any way. Where they’re a mere blip in our lives’ rear-view mirrors.

Every step we take towards success will really, really piss them off. And we’ll be too busy and fulfilled to even NOTICE.

This is exactly the attitude I am taking. For the first time in my life I am investing in me and the family I have built.

My friend is very difficult to like sometimes. I suspect she is a narcissist. She is very focussed on her own feelings but shows next to no regard to anyone else's'.

She suffers greatly but it's very much due to her own actions or inability to handle her own emotions.

She's never satisfied with how things are. She sees the worst in everything and everybody.

She's impatient - she's like a child that wants what she wants immediately.

She's angry when she doesn't get things her own way. She feels slighted when she's not included in things that are nothing to do with her.

She is not stupid - she just doesn't care very deeply about anyone else. She is lonely yet is unable to ever truly connect to anyone else in an equal, meaningful relationship.

Yup @MacbookHoHoHo..

However, for some its theor spouse or parents they depend on.. God give them strength to keep the light with them until they can free themselves. Its very very veerryy tough.

@PandemicAtTheDisco.. I have got one too, althought I have stopped trusting her. I just nod head and give one liners. She is always on with everyone turning against her ( no one actually has) and she has a husband who knows what she is and takes care of her like a baby. Holidays, diamond jewellry, ignoring all the others who told him about her abusive texts to them out of the blue.
He earns very good money and cooks and cleans and takes care of her and the kids and all the grocery and bills etc. She is just busy being a princess and 24/7 complaining.

Its been only 1yr I am reading about them and I am shocked on how many of them I interacted with!

Everyone of her friends have helped her in certain times. She NEVER helped anyone at all.

She wants to be helped by all of them all the time even thought she would not give a hoot to anyone of them anytime.
Mind bigging how they see themselves above others

So many typos.. sorry!

My friend suffers. She is very unhappy with how things are but refuses to see how she is responsible.

It is very childish behaviour. She blocks it out and refuses to take in what people tell her. She doesn't agree and won't accept she is in the wrong. Something bad happened and she won't accept responsibility. She says she can't remember it and it's like a dream - it happened and she is clearly responsible but there is no evidence of her feeling sorry about it - just she can't remember. She refuses to acknowledge it.

The worst is how she rewrites history and expects everyone to go along with her lies and left out vital information. It's insulting. She knows to not include the stuff that makes her look at fault - so she knows she's at fault but still refuses to accept it?

The need for her to have her own way overrides everything else. One two hour visit every week turns into no contact at all as she keeps trying to change the date, have extra days, extend the time etc. She ends up with nothing as she won't stop pushing for what she wants. If she pushes for two days and gets them then the other person is unhappy but she still pushes for more. If she wants to visit someone then they get to decide what's acceptable.

She turned up at my house despite the lockdown. I refused to let her in and she knew I'd said not to visit but came anyway.

One time a few years ago I had a few hours with distant family who live in a different country and she offered to come around and help prepare (refuse to follow instructions of how I want food and drinks prepared, stay, cling to my side the whole time so I can't spend time alone with the family that I hardly ever see and that she doesn't know). I thanked her for the offer but clearly said no. She turned up anyway so I was forced to turn her away. It took time to get rid of her so I was late setting up the food and drinks.

Everyone is turning away from her and no longer has any time for her. She won't see that she is driving them away. She is her own worst enemy.

The one I know 'suffers' because no one has time to treat her exceptionally.
She also has distanced many because they arnt worth her. The diatanced once are going on with their lives thou until she messages them very vulgar messages and that shuts it off for life.

Someone did mention ending up lonely. It might be the case. However narcs beleived they ended up lonely because everyone else was rude .

I think then is when it makes a difference ; on how many people you could keep close relationships with through out the life you had. Narcs seem to lose many along the way. Ah... I think I am stating to get it!

The narc is afraid of being alone and a "nobody" as the one I met put it.

They cannot see that it's their behaviour that drives others away and that you're the one who's being "hot and cold" when you try to set boundaries or say no to an invitation or when they foist themselves in you.

They suffer as they repeat the same patterns over and over causing others to abandon them. I really tried with the narc in my life but when it involves giving up my identity, morals and those closest to me just to do their bidding, then I am not living for me anymore and I Ann i am being fake as they are. They would have been unhappy anyway.

Nothing will ever good enough for the narcissist.

@Woodflower They definitely blame others for their loneliness and are entitled enough to believe that others owe them their company and a relationship. They see others pushing them away rather than then driving others away.

They suffer a lot. They are thin-skinned and perpetually upset that the world doesn't revolve around them, that people say no to them, that they can't maintain relationships which they see as their right (eg with family members.) They are constantly on the hunt to suck the life out of other people and baffled that not everyone wants to play. They are constantly in a furious temper at the world not going exactly as they decide it should. They are in a state of obsessive permanent self-pity. I'd hate to be wired that way.

My ex-friend was a covert narc, playing the victim all the fucking time to get her supply of attention, sympathy and people who would run around taking care of her.

She picked up friends when THEY were low and vulnerable, when their boundary-keeping was weak. For me my (now) DH was in Iraq in Gulf War 2, but other friends I know of were 1) sibling-bereavement, 2) homeless & pregnant after a relationship breakdown, 3) dealing with autistic child and attempts at diagnosis (high functioning so good at school). She would love-bomb and support you and you would owe her your soul forever for it

Covert narcs have vulnerabilities, but they reflect all of them onto you and accuse you of any wrongdoings they are guilty of. You're the bad friend, you never support them. Apparently I was manipulative! Every time I tried to help her it was never good enough, and all favours had to be done to her specifications and you would receive criticism not thanks. I ruined a day out for my children to race home from Legoland to help her to be fair her DC did have to be admitted for a minor injury caused at school but her response was to criticise that I hadn't put all the toys away properly and it was a bit of a mess. After 24 hours of watching her other children and having a hot roast dinner waiting when she got home, after she'd insisted the children needed to be at her house and not mine.

She tried splitting a friendship group up but got caught out on a lie, then over a very emotional morning the rest of us untangled all the lies said about each other. It wasn't pleasant, but there was a lot of clarity. The only time I've spoken to her since that day was when she was nearly hit by a car and I checked she was okay.

I pity her, and I don't often do pity. It must be exhausting being in her head, balancing all the lies. She must live in permanent fear of being caught out. Of course her new victims friends give me hard stares because I'll have been added to the list of bad people, but I don't care. The freedom is amazing over here.

Do you think you’d know if you were a narcissist? I’m scared that I am one but that I don’t know. 😱 But then, I don’t lie or ask people to help me. In fact, I’m crap at asking for help and would rather —control— do everything myself. But then I worry that THAT’S a sign of narcissism..?

I’ve had therapy twice. If I were a narcissist, would they have told me?

Sorry to derail the thread to all about me. That’s so narky! Argh!

@MacbookHoHoHo

Do you think you’d know if you were a narcissist? I’m scared that I am one but that I don’t know. 😱 But then, I don’t lie or ask people to help me. In fact, I’m crap at asking for help and would rather —control— do everything myself. But then I worry that THAT’S a sign of narcissism..?

I’ve had therapy twice. If I were a narcissist, would they have told me?

The narcissist seeks to control others through manipulation but being in control of your own situation is different if you are not using others.

If you are concerned about being a narcissist yourself, then that is a good sign that you are not. I often think that too especially since I was involved with someone who had high narcissistic traits.

No idea whether a therapist would tell you whether you are or not unless they detected traits and suggested you get a formal diagnosis.

My friend is very depressed and feels alone. Her family have abandoned her. She is the victim of countless horrible people who have betrayed her. But she doesn't want help with her depression - according to her what needs to change is the people causing her feelings. Therapy is something they need to make them be nicer to her. She very actively doesn't want any therapy or pills from the GP. The problem isn't her.

Counselling has been offered to my friend but she doesn't see how that will help. It won't change her children and make them be 'nicer' to her and put her first above all others (they are in relationships, work, have their own houses, children etc).

She really (acts as if she) doesn't seem to think she's done anything wrong yet she asks 'what did I do wrong' but then doesn't listen when you make suggestions.

I'm not sure how an imaginary counselling session would go with a narcissist.

Its possible to have narcissistic traits without being a narcissist. Being a true narcissist is all encompassing. I truly believe they are wired differently so trying to understand them is impossible. Our concepts of happy/sad/regret/suffering/etc can't be applied to them as they don't think and feel like others.

The one thing they are though is predictable, so recognise their patterns protect yourself and leave them to it. Giving a narc as little as your headspace as possible is the only victory you can have against them.

Narcs are also skilled abusers and manipulators, so while people may appear to be enablers its likely they have been gaslit and bullied for years.

Thanks, everyone. That’s reassuring. I feel better. Thanks! The 2 quizzes I took both mentioned looking in the mirror is a narcissist trait. Have you noticed that, in your narcissists?

I look in the mirror at LOT. But not in joy, more like “What's fallen out of my nose lately?” 😆

I'm definitely not a narcissist then Mac, I have been known not to look in a mirror for days