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Philosophy/religion

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Any Witches Here? Part 6

986 replies

speakout · 17/01/2019 17:43

Or Wiccans. or Pagans? Or anyone who is interested in a magical path or feels some magical stirrings.

A place for support, learning, swapping ideas and magical inspiration

All welcome.

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Thread gallery
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speakout · 18/01/2019 11:27

certainlymerry

I think many empaths are drawn to broken people, instinctively wanting to help and fix- but end up on the recieving end of negative behaviour.

I ended up in a horriffic life changing situation, and it was a real wake up call.
Thankfully it came before I had my children, but I had learned to value myself more by then.

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sockportal · 18/01/2019 11:29

Hello everyone! I hope you are all well? I've missed you all, I dropped off the last thread because I started a new job and Christmas monopolised my time.

I'm dragging my big cushion to the aga and looking forward to catching up with you all.

I'm recovering from some minor bladder surgery, and thinking about all that has changed in the last year for me. I'm a lot calmer, I think that comes from the encouragement in here for mindfulness and self care. Taking part in some little daily rituals for my loved ones. I also found putting some names of people stressing me out into the freezer worked wonders I think that was back in thread 2 or 3.

speakout · 18/01/2019 11:36

sockportal

Lovely to see you here.

Sorry to hear you have been under the weather, but glad that you are on the mend and prioritising yourself a litte.

I can hardly believe we are on the 6th incarnation of this thread- 5000 posts, it's lovely to have met so many amazing women.

Congratulations on your new job!

Some of us here are a little low in energy, and cloudy moods- understandable at this time of year.

I am really good, some big clouds that have been over me in the past year due to a family situation have lifted and I feel as light as a feather!

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Incrediblehulky · 18/01/2019 12:08

Good morning everyone, I hope you are all ok. I've not posted for a while - been feeling very low and don't feel I've anything of value to add at the moment. Just wanted to say hello on the new thread, I've not posted but have been reading all your updates daily and its good to know you are all there. Blessings to you all Flowers

YashmisCrone · 18/01/2019 13:26

Lovely to see sockportal and IncredibleHulky. It’s good to have you back with us Smile

It’s also lovely to hear you so bright speakout Thank you for sharing your lovely energy x

YashmisCrone · 18/01/2019 13:39

All this discussion about how we relate to others is really making me think..

I think I’ve said it before, but a big part of my path is personal development- for me it’s very much central to my witches journey- my rituals and practices show me new things about myself and my journey and I see working on them as a very important part of this. I can do all the happiness spells I like but I also need to work on this myself. I find increased self awareness gives me the tools to move forward and live a happier life. I don’t always like what I’m presented with but a big part of my learning has been to ‘go there’ and bring to the light, without judgment, the parts of me that I may not like so much and learn to become aware and make changes.

The discussion about who we attract in our lives has really struck a chord with me. I think it’s a massive thing that can keep us women in the role of ‘helper’, discounting our own needs and ultimately feeling resentful and dissatisfied. I saw it a lot in women’s work I’ve done, in the family and mostly in myself.

I don’t mean actual abuse, which of course is a different and much more serious matter but when it comes to unhealthy dynamics in relationships, I think it’s a pattern that impacts on women particularly in a very detrimental way and in my experience has been the most important thing to take control of in terms of feeling freer and more autonomous.

It’s something I feel very strongly about so I hope you don’t mind me sharing some thoughts from my own journey (Ramble alert!!)

I agree that as empaths/sensitive people we are often drawn to ‘fix’ and also agree that building self worth and being able to state our own needs as part of a healthy relationship is essential to combat the damage that can be caused this way.

What’s really helped me is to move away from looking at it from the victim and perpetrator framework. I see so much on social media and in the wider world that tells and re-tells (therefore reinforces) the narrative of us ‘poor sensitive empaths’ with only good intentions falling victim to the wicked narcissist.

I have several problems with this. Firstly, I think it perpetuates fear- like there’s ‘monsters out there’ Very disempowering I think.

Secondly it makes us the ‘innocent victims’. Also disempowering- and furthermore takes away any responsibility from us or us having the power to change the kind of relationships we have.

For example- if I enter any relationship with the view to ‘just wanting to help’ (or fix) then that’s the role I’m putting myself in and I’ll attract someone who just wants to take. I shouldn’t then be surprised when the other person doesn’t consider my needs- that’s not the dynamic or role either of us signed up to in the first place.

Like Barton said- it’s about what role everyone is in. These rarely change without concerted effort. It’s like an unwritten contract we sign. I think we often think that people should just know to meet our needs without us telling them what they are. But actually unless we assert them then they aren’t going to know.

I might want a friend to invite me out for coffee instead of me always being the one to suggest things. So I’ll stop asking,sit back and wait for that to happen. She doesn’t and then I use this to feed my ideas of feeling hurt and unloved. (Reinforcing the story I tell myself that they don’t care) In reality she doesn’t do this because those are just the roles we’ve always played- she doesn’t know I’ve changed the rules in my own head and am testing her. She may or may not be selfish but all I can change is the role I play in relation to her.

I’ve also had to learn that to always be in the role of helper (fixer) is a mechanism of control in itself. Ouch. Whilst I’m in that role I’m the ‘goodie’ the other person is ‘the problem’ and I don’t have to deal with (or show) my ‘shortcomings’ This actually puts me ‘above’ the person who is ‘the problem’

So I might think I’m being neglected and hard done by but there’s usually a reason why I’m keeping myself in that role. If it doesn’t serve me then I need to change it. To be on an equal footing with someone in any relationship makes us vulnerable and shows us up to be less than ‘perfect’ beings. That can be scary and difficult- it can actually be preferable to be in a martyr role in this way.

I think some of the difficulty comes when we grow and develop, increase our self worth and want something different from our relationships, then it becomes difficult to be in the role we put ourselves in in the first place- it jars with the ‘internal upgrade’ we’ve had.

We need to renegotiate as the other person isn’t on the same path of us- retrain the other to meet our needs. We can’t expect them to just know and change because our perception has changed. This requires being vulnerable and saying what our needs are. They may not want to change things because the situation as it is serves them well. That’s when we decide whether to leave the situation behind.

Again, it’s pattern changing- as described by queenrollo this is no mean feat and can literally feel like withdrawing from a drug (the chemical processes in our bodies are similar)

I think we tend to play out our stories over and over again until we become aware of them and seek to change them. Like the well trodden pathways described by speakout

For example, I knew a man who experienced the most abhorrent abuse and neglect as a child. When you talked to him he was sad and would tell you that all he wanted was to be loved and feel wanted. Yet he suffered abuse and disappointment after heartbreaking disappointment until eventually he died alone- his worst fear.

The problem was that the damage was so deep that he could never see the victim role he was continuing to play out over and over again. He would (could?) not set boundaries or assert his needs- he never learnt any other way to be- whilst the role he was playing was far from comfortable- it was familiar and therefore his default. I think I’ve said before that one surprising epiphany I’ve had is that we default to what is familiar rather than what serves us best. A very sad story that made me more determined than ever to take control and make changes no matter how uncomfortable.

With most of us sensitive people, I think the path to self awareness and personal growth/empowerment includes a time when we are shown our patterns- the narratives we are playing out and taking part in that do not serve us. This, I think is an opportunity to break free and work towards new, healthier patterns that nourish and serve us. It’s not easy by any stretch but it’s so worth it I think.

So now if someone repeatedly behaves in a way that upsets me, I’ll allow myself to feel it and then look at my role in the situation, why I’m playing that role (I try to do this without judgment as I find it really doesn’t help me move forward) and how I can change that. It has meant that there are people who are no longer beside me on my journey, which has been painful but overall for the good. This is how I’ve developed healthier relationships over time.

Sorry for the ramble- as may be obvious this has been a huge part of my path and something I’ve worked on in myself for many years!

BartonHollow · 18/01/2019 13:48

@YashmisCrone

What a great post!

So much resonates

And it's true that if your vision of the dynamic and theirs don't tally it causes toxicity

YashmisCrone · 18/01/2019 14:11

Thanks Barton it’s something I’ve given a lot of thought! Blush and I’m very passionate about- us women being able to take control of relationship dynamics and be the divine, powerful beings we are without feeling we have to dim our lights!

I worked with a group of men yesterday- their various circumstances brought a very dark, powerful and potentially scary energy. Reflecting on how I can ‘hold’ this energy and facilitate positive change along with the discussion you brought about relationship dynamics reminded me how important it’s been (and what a journey it’s been) for me to take control of my energies and now I can serve others whilst being in control. I don’t think it’s a journey that ever stops- always something new to learn!

Elphame · 18/01/2019 14:35

Lovely post YashmisCrone

I've been potting up cacti. Painful even with gloves.... I've discovered why my St Pedro is growing so poorly and wobbles - it has virtually no roots and nothing but gravel to grow any in. I've repotted it in some specialist compost and staked it so I'm hoping it'll put out a root or two and start to grow properly. They do well in poor soil but that is ridiculous.

And one of my cactus seeds has germinated - I have a baby cactus!

EnchantersNightshade · 18/01/2019 15:00

Fantastic post YashmisCrone. Smile I'm always drawn to your posts & you manage to verbalise lots of my thoughts without me using energy to attempt to message. I recognise so much of what you & speakout have described about empaths & 'rescuers' (I am one Blush) It possibly contributed to my eventual severe chronic illness, so I am re-wiring my pathways.

I had a dream last week that I was upright, outdoors & taking photographs of a beautiful sunset & a heron. Then I popped on here & saw your photos ShockGrin Thank you everyone for your descriptions of your practices & photographs, it helps me escape my room!

Elphame a cactus from a seed is lovely to hear about. New life!

Give us a hand to push my bed closer to the Aga Wink

Onwards with our Thread 6 journies 💫

Sokere · 18/01/2019 15:05

@YashmisCrone Very insightful post, thank you. I'm actually burnt out from playing that role of rescuer/helper/advocate /nurse /counsellor.. you name it, I've done it and so many times. I still have empathy and sympathy but very little energy left to cope. And I wonder, in my own case, how much focusing on other people's problems excused me from dealing and facing my own? As you say, not always easy to face ourselves squarely and assess our unconscious motivations.

@Elphame Baby cacti? How lovely! I recall my parents arguing ferociously over the watering of cacti. Never found out who was actually right.

certainlymerry · 18/01/2019 15:41

@YashmishCrone - Brilliant post. So well put and very thought provoking and true. Thank you!

speakout · 18/01/2019 15:49

YashmisCrone

A very insightful post.

And very meaningful, it is giving me lots of food for thought.

There are lots of things I resonate with there.

I was brought up by ( what would now be called) a surrendered wife.
In a rural village, far away from outside unfluences. Long before the days of the internet, I was taught to serve men.
My mother never worked, didn't drive. My father was a "benevolent" dictator.
My mother made no decisions, had no income, she had no say.
She agreed with everything that my father said, did not value or trust her own judgement, and neither did my father.

I was brought up to never interrupt a man, I was taught how to iron for a man, how to polish his shoes, taught never to answer back.
The only sex education I was given by my mother was when she told me " sex is horrible and painful, but you have to do it to keep your man"

This dynamic was not that unusual in its time.

I left home ill prepared for adult life - very green, and easy meat for any man. I married young.
I tried as hard as I could to please my new husband but nothing seemed to prevent the beatings.

I asked my mother for guideance and she told me I "must try harder not to make him angry".
I was lost and felt let down.
The next few years became worse, much worse.

Time has moved and I am in a better place, a beautiful life.

Fo a long time I blamed myself for being weak, for being fearful, for being gullible.

Mostly now I don't.
I forgive myself for my weaknesses, my lack of courage.

And even more, I actuall think I am a better stronger person, a better parent and much happier because things have not always been so.

Every day is a gift to me.

Apologies for some rambling thoughts.

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Sokere · 18/01/2019 16:00

Oh speakout... I am so sorry to hear what you've gone through. I feel incredibly angry on your behalf right now.

speakout · 18/01/2019 16:14

Thank you sokere, but I am in the place where my journey has taken me, and it is a very good place now. That is what is important, that and the lessons I have learned.
XX

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certainlymerry · 18/01/2019 17:18

Speakout - I find it hard to equate the person you are now with the person you were then. You have come a long long way. Your strength and sense of purpose shines out of every post you make. You are compassionate, wise and have integrity. I feel sad that your mother had so little happiness in her own life too. The great thing is that your daughter is a different woman, and has broken the mould, due in large part to how you have mothered her.

speakout · 18/01/2019 17:27

certainlymerry

You are very kind.

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VioletCharlotte · 18/01/2019 17:44

Yashmis what a brilliant post. I can relate to everything you have said. It's interesting how so many of us have similar experiences. Speakout I'm so sorry to read what you've been through. What an awful childhood you had. I truly believe though, that this has made you the person you are today.

I had a good childhood, but went through a difficult stage during my teens and early twenties. I rebelled against my very middle class, very sensible parents. I got invoked with the wrong people, took drugs and ended up with a controlling abusive partner, who I ended up having children with. I was drawn to him because I thought I could change him. He was drawn to my caring, forging nature and took advantage. The friends I attached were also users who drained me emotionally but were never there for me.

In the last 10 years, I feel I've developed so much as a person. I've grown confident and I respect myself, rather than being grateful that anyone wants to be my friend, I'm selective about who I let close. I've got some great friends, but I'm not reliant on any of them for anything. Once upon a time I would have been desperately messaging people, trying to make sure my weekend was packed full. Otherwise I'd feel I was missing out on something. These days, I'm perfectly happy if I have no plans to see anyone, as I can fill my time with things I want to do.

The interesting thing is that now I'm not seeking out company, company seeks out me. And I'm attracting different sorts of people, people who are similar to me, who I enjoy being around.

I do sometimes wish I could go back and meet my younger self!

YashmisCrone · 18/01/2019 18:28

Thank you sisters for all your kind words and feedback on my earlier post. It’s lovely to feel that resonance with you all.

speakout

You are such a wise and wonderful soul and an inspiration to us all here x

My humble opinion is that there is no weakness or lack of courage to forgive in yourself in your story.

When I worked for women’s aid and knowing what I went through myself with a string of mentally abusive relationships, a big thing that struck me was the sheer strength and grit required to endure such a situation day after day. There’s no way an abuser would change by standing up to them or assserting your needs- it’d just make the situation more dangerous and torturous to live in. Usual rational strategies just would not work. Great strength, mental strategising and tenacity is required just to live with such horrors. Far from weak but that’s what they have to make you believe so you’ll believe there’s no way you could survive without them.

One of the most powerful pieces of work we did IMO was a ‘pattern changing programme’ part of that was to define what messages we are given about what love is in our early years. Right or wrong and despite what we consciously think we want, we’ll play out that role in our relationships until we become aware of it and/or change it. We used to have a reading list for clients. I remember reading ‘Women who love too much’ by Robin Norwood. It’s had some criticism but it taught me a lot about how powerful these patterns are and how to change them.

Years later, coming out of yet another mentally torturous relationship (Violet your experience really resonates with me there) the book jumped off my bookcase, literally. This was a response to me crying out to the goddess to help me. This time I read it from my own perspective. Woah. That was a turning point for me, and whilst it focuses on romantic relationships I think it has a powerful message about changing patterns in our lives in the context of all of our relationships.

I’ve got a lot of time and respect for anyone willing to ‘go there’ and change things. Of course it’s not always possible or safe but I do think every situation, no matter how gruelling can eventually take us to a stronger place, like you say speakout

This discussion makes me grateful, yet again to have you wonderful strong women in my life 🙏

Right, that’s probably quite enough psycho-babble from me for one day!

More dhal and veg is order for me tonight- I think it’s all part of what grounds me- something I’ve had to really work at doing.

I love the sound of the baby cactus Elphame!

Enchanters Shock Grin that’s amazing about your dream. Wow!

Wishing everyone a peaceful evening 🕯

BartonHollow · 18/01/2019 19:10

My own childhood has some similarities and some differences to yours speakout - but in our case (mine and siblings) has meant that we have almost gone too far the other way and have not forged lasting long term marriages or relationships in a bid to avoid as far as possible replicating our parents

"They fuck you up, your Mum and Dad they do not mean to but they do"

I think in our case we never knew what a normal relationship looked like and so don't recognise it when we see it, we knew what a toxic relationship looked like and so run from it, leaving lasting relationships a puzzle we can't solve...

queenrollo · 18/01/2019 19:11

Thank you for some wonderful posts this evening, but especially Yashmis who has expressed my own thoughts on the subject of being empathic and the dynamic of personal relationships.

BlankTimes · 18/01/2019 19:17

Thank-you all for the Ramblings, maybe we should have a Friday Night Ramble spot, but then the spontaneity is lost. It's done so much good to read all of the experiences and the consequent strengths that have evolved from those.

I think if anyone feels the need to pop back and see the girl they once were, it's fine to say something like Look, I understand that you did the best you could in those circumstances and whilst you think it wasn't good enough, in actual fact it was perfect for that time and that situation because it's made me (us?) who I am today.

I also think we can be so hard on ourselves, the self-critic seems always to be saying could do better, should have tried harder, not good enough and yet if we saw anyone else doing the same in the same circumstances, we'd either think wow, sassy to make the best of that dire situation or wish I could give her a little nudge in the right direction, she's so close to getting on top of that.

VioletCharlotte · 18/01/2019 19:25

Blanktimes that really resonates with me. I've always beat myself up for the mistakes I made when I was younger. It's only very recently (and I believe after reading something someone this thread recommended) that I've stopped being so harsh with myself. I'm working on considering what I'd say to that 19 year old girl if she was my daughter or my niece. Would I think her behaviour disgusting or shameful? No, I'd think she was a mixed up young girl who needs a hug. A young girl who's being taken advantage of and needs some support and guidance. It really changes things .

I do love a good ramble!

speakout · 18/01/2019 19:47

Blanktimes

Yes that strikes home for me too.

And it is part of my shadow work.
To befriend and support that child and young woman, to give her understanding.
To speak to her. To tell her that she is worthy, to nurture her a little.

I remember crying as a 20 year old lying in bed, bruised and upset, feeling an older female come to comfort me, and dry my tears.

I sometimes wonder if that older me was in fact me now, doing that shadow work- that I have been doing quite a bit in recent years, trying to heal us both.

Could that energy stretch back and reach my 20 year old self?

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queenrollo · 18/01/2019 19:48

I had analytical hypnotherapy a few times to help me with my anxiety. Part of the process was to 'meet' my younger self, and to tell her the things she needed to hear. Then the process was to take my younger self in my arms and hug her tightly until I absorbed her into me, where I could love and protect her forever more. I never had to hug hard, my younger self simply melted into me. My hypnotherapist said it indicated that I was truly ready to heal myself. It was one of the most profoundly emotional experiences of my life. I have learned how to do it myself now, in a self induced hypnosis.

I suppose it wouldn't work for everyone, but that was the first thing I ever did to try and dial down my anxiety and all the progress I have made on myself started with the first hypnotherpay session.