DP dismisses my religion and I’m hurt

[ThomasRichard]

I’ve been with DP for 2 years; I have 2 DC (not his) and he’s about to move in. I’m a Christian, he’s atheist. Marriage is really important to me and while we’re living together without being married I’m restricted on what I can do at church because sex outside marriage is a big no-no. For me, it’s also negatively affecting the way I feel about myself and also worries me in an eternal-perspective view. He knew the full details of my religious views when we started dating and I have brought up the marriage aspect periodically. At the beginning of the year I went through this with him again and he said we could get married. I waited a few months, no proposal, so brought it up again and he said he felt it was too early. I was a bit confused but waited. Still nothing 7 months later so I approached it with him again last night and he spent half an hour rubbishing my beliefs, pointing out how illogical and meaningless they are, and telling me that I shouldn’t care what other people think. I tried to explain to him that it was about how I felt about myself too but I was crying and I just didn’t get it across very well. He doesn’t want to get married until ‘it feels right’.

I’m so hurt. Not even particularly about him not wanting to get married, more about the way he completely dismissed my feelings and beliefs and tried to talk me out of having them. I don’t understand how he can love me if he’s ok with me feeling humiliated in my social circle when he doesn’t have any particular reason for not getting married, he just wants it on his own timing. I don’t like the way he told me - in not so many words - that my beliefs are stupid and illogical so nothing that I feel about them is valid or should be considered. It’s really left me questioning whether this is a good relationship. In all other ways he is kind, hardworking and fun to be with. But he was so dismissive and rude last night that I’m shocked and deeply hurt.

Has anyone else had a partner who disagrees with their beliefs? How did you square it? Or not?

Loopy you don't have to share beliefs to respect them. I respect the right to practise religion and to have your own beliefs. If you adhere to your belief system I will respect your right to do it even if I disagree with the system itself (and will keep my mouth shut because what you do has no impact on me unless you're trying to push your beliefs on me)&. However if someone is extolling the importance of certain beliefs one minute and then flouting the same rules of that religion the next then no, I don't fully respect the practice of their religion. I have friends that grew up very religious and against sex before marriage. They stayed virgins until their wedding nights. I'm happy for them that they could fulfil that aspect of their religion even though I disagree that sex before marriage is bad. I'd have very little respect for the beliefs of someone who lectured me on the importance of no sex before marriage while they were engaging in a sexual relationship themselves.

It's just an issue with hypocrisy. If someone was fully vegan I'd be ok with them telling me they disagree with eating animal products. If someone is a half arsed 'vegetarian' that happens to enjoy a kebab and bacon sandwich after a drink or that has a penchant for chicken then I won't respect them if they decide to start lecturing me on the ethics of meat eating. Because it's hypocritical. And I say that as someone that chooses to only eat meat or fish once in a blue moon.

Practice what you preach or don't preach it. It's not complicated.

There seems to be an awful lot of condemnation on this thread coming from non-believers. I sincerely hope OP remembers "let he who is without sin amongst you cast the first stone".

Agree Belinda that it’s not necessary to agree with others’ beliefs to respect them - my point is that, from what OP has said, OP’s boyfriend doesn’t seem to respect hers. But perhaps that’s not right.

I want to get back into living the way I feel is right.

Then it's entirely up to you, not him.

You establish your own boundaries and define how you want to live.

Tell him it's marriage or nothing. But be prepared for him to walk out.

If you feel humiliated in your church or among your friends, it's still due to your actions and choices. It's not his fault.

Be brave either way, but you will have to make some tough choices here. You. Don't blame him.

I was in a similar situation and we did eventually get married. It was a disaster.

He never understood what my faith meant to me, that it wasn't just a 'club' I belonged to like the hobbies he did, but it was something that affects my whole life. And I didn't realise this until too late, because to me it was obvious and I thought he knew what faith was, but actually as someone brought up in a non-religious household with only a passing cultural knowledge of Christianity, it turns out that he didn't have a clue. We would clash about all sorts of things where he thought that my faith was affecting my decisions and I was sort of confused that he hadn't 'got' this earlier because it's not like I ever pretended to be anything else. In retrospect, I did get gradually more in line with my Church's teachings so that I became more and more unhappy with the sex before marriage, and the lack of mutual understanding in our relationship meant that neither of us communicated it well.

I don't intend to remarry, but if I ever did then having a partner who was from a faith background (even if not necessarily Christian, but just someone who understood what faith is) would be absolutely my number 1 priority.

I'm a bit confused. If the OP was from a fundamentalist part of Christianity divorce is unlikely to be OK for someone in leadership. The talk of excommunication and a bishop makes me think that that OP might be RC but they usually annul a marriage rather than divorce. Perhaps the OP is part of one of the non mainstream Christian denominations like the LDS. Sex before marriage is officially against the rules in all forms of Christianity but I've yet to marry a couple who weren't living together first so it is likely that whichever denomination the OP is from it is likely to be quite conservative. I'm confused and I'm a professional Christian so no wonder the OPs boyfriend is.

In terms of the denominations culture and rules the OP needs to work with it or move to another denomination which is unlikely if she is one of the non mainstream ones as they usually see themselves as the proper Christians and those of us in the C of E, RC, Baptist etc as backsliders/heretics/not proper Christians. From the religious point of view it looks like it comes down to what is more important the denomination or the partner?

If the partner is important, perhaps relationship counselling with a third party to work out what is non negotiable and what is could help.

Forgive me for asking, but, as a non-christian (although a former one), can anyone of faith explain to me how sexual intercourse with someone is fornication but once a piece of paper has been signed, it's all magically okay? This is the same people in the same relationship. I don't see the difference. I used to struggle with this concept (as with many others) before deciding this faith was not for me. As an add-on, and this may have been more to do with the church I used to attend, it was always the female who was 'shamed' for having sexual relations.

@FestiveGanesh - most Christians I think would consider marriage as being a covenant between the spouses and a mutual covenant with God. It isn't just a piece of paper. If OP is LDS like a few of us suspect, she will believe in eternal marriage also (not til death do us part) which will also be playing on her mind. From an LDS viewpoint it is generally the men who will end up with a seemingly greater discipline as priesthood holders if they end up in that position. Certainly in my own experience there is nothing shaming as such. If OP is LDS she would be facing certain sanctions which may include being asked to refrain from taking the sacrament (communion) for a period of time (and I promise most folks won't notice if someone is or isn't taking it) or at its worst she would be excommunicated and require a further baptism in the future. I can honestly say that in my own experience she has nothing to fear about this at all and it is dealt with in love not in condemnation.

Thanks Annie. I guess my problem is I am way too logical! :) The concept of marriage being a covenant between spouses and God used to be verbal, in front of a number of witnesses. My own marriage (then a church marriage) was similar, with a certificate issued, etc.
I'd slept with DH to be before marriage, but with nobody else. Some 25 years on, we're still together. I wouldn't have a religious ceremony now but I do believe in fidelity for the duration of a relationship. If the relationships is going awry (heading for divorce) then there needs to be a clear, unequivocal and formal separation/annulment before either party ought to be entering into another sexual relationship.

FestiveGanesh - it’s not the ‘piece of paper’ that’s significant in that view, it’s the vows to each other and to God. The idea is that sex is sacred so shouldn’t happen outside that particular framework.

(I have no problem with sex outside marriage myself although in situations like the OP’s it doesn't seem to be a great idea for either of them in practice.)

ah, cross-posted!

Festive, you’re confusing religious and civil/secular discourses of marriage. I grew up Catholic, for instance, and marriage (in church) is a sacrament, along with baptism, confirmation, ordination etc. — and is indissoluble — whereas it does not recognise my registry office marriage vows as valid on its terms.

@moonstoned - does that mean the Catholic Church would view it you were having sex outside marriage despite being married by secular authorities?

It does sound as though the OP and her spouse-to- be do not have compatible beliefs, and STB doesn't sound too sympathetic to OPs.
This is something that needs to be resolved before any further commitment is undertaken, whether that is cohabitation or marriage.

Annie, if one or both of the civilly-married couple are Catholics , yes, the Church does not consider it a valid marriage.

(Obviously, the Catholic Church has no jurisdiction over non-Catholics, but I believe it considers marriages between baptised people, if they are contracted properly according to the rules and ceremonies of their own sect, valid. So two C of E people married in a C of E church, or two Lutherans, or whatever, converted to Catholicism, they’d be considered already married. )

I think it gets more complicated than that, but DH and I, childhood Catholics who had a registry office wedding, are not married in the eyes of the church.

@moonstoned - sorry for asking so many questions, I'm intrigued. Does that mean if you and your husband were to go back that you'd be subject to any disciplinary type procedures or would you just be expected to get married again in the church?

It wouldn't be disciplinary proceedings but they'd be expected to have the existing marriage convalidated (basically exchanging vows again in front of a priest) to Catholic-ify it.

Well - three cheers for this caring church!!! - excommunicated! Blimey - is his the 12th century!?

If he thinks your religious views are rubbish then he needs to find someone else. But I also think you need to ask yourself about this church you belong to. You can have your faith without this guilt trip. Get shut of them - they are off message. Love is the thing.

Technically, what 53rd said, but in practice, it wouldn’t come up unless we brought it up. No one is going to interrogate the marital status of someone peacefully attending Mass! Nothing like the OP is describing.

*@FestiveGanesh *
Forgive me for asking, but, as a non-christian (although a former one), can anyone of faith explain to me how sexual intercourse with someone is fornication but once a piece of paper has been signed, it's all magically okay?
Coz them's the rules, weird isn't it?

My understanding, as an ex Christian, is that it's one of those end goal deals. Anything goes, as long as in the end, you square it with the big JC
Repent, take vows, make vows, and all sin is undone. But if you just carry on doing it, without the shame and promises, ya sizzle

(Obviously, the Catholic Church has no jurisdiction over non-Catholics, but I believe it considers marriages between baptised people, if they are contracted properly according to the rules and ceremonies of their own sect, valid. So two C of E people married in a C of E church, or two Lutherans, or whatever, converted to Catholicism, they’d be considered already married. )

Catholics also recognise marriages between non-Catholics contracted civilly, they don't have to be celebrated in a church. The only difference is that they consider non-Catholic Christians to have a sacramental marriage and non-Christians to have a natural marriage. And if non-Christians convert to Christianity, their marriage automatically becomes sacramental.

Yup. And if your original sect recognises civil marriages as valid, then Catholicism recognises them, too. Like I said, it’s complicated. When a friend was trying to get an annulment, a long time ago, I ended up reading a lot of canon law...

can anyone of faith explain to me how sexual intercourse with someone is fornication but once a piece of paper has been signed, it's all magically okay?

It doesn't matter what you believe! Faith is exactly that - faith. The point is that the OP believes this to be so, and her DP doesn't. He not only doesn't believe it, he ridicules that she does. That is disrespectuful and no basis for any kind of long term relatioship.

You don't take your beliefs seriously enough to live by them. Why would you expect other people to?