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Philosophy/religion

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Original poster

Guidance sought

207 replies

MillieMallard · 03/11/2018 22:35

Have namechanged. I’m a Catholic and am active in my church. I go to Mass regularly. I abide by the teachings. I have been listening to faith leaders from my own and other denominations and faiths online for some time now. I also have friends with other faiths, Christian denominations and general outlooks.

I need to talk to someone because I need to discuss some faith questions but I can’t talk to my priest. The reason for this is that I know him very well which sounds contradictory but as he is embroiled in my whole life, I need neutrality. Also, he is always so busy that I don’t want to be an inconvenience. There’s lots more to this but I don’t want to out myself. A key area though is that my friend’s partner is a leader in another faith and believes I am not saved because I am Catholic. I’ve listened to information from so many avenues that I’ve been overloaded in my quest for an answer and just would like someone neutral with some theological knowledge to talk to. Any ideas? Also I haven’t come in here to be slated by atheists as seems to happen on so many other forums. Please help with any useful suggestions. I feel desperate. I just don’t know where to turn.

OP posts:
leafbud · 10/11/2018 16:50

Mental illness is an illness. Illness by definition is harmful. Illness is a dysfunction, Madness and delusion are symptomatic of mental illness.

leafbud · 10/11/2018 16:53

Tbh I think it is incredibly arrogant and discriminatory to describe world views that do not match your own as 'akin to madness, or at least delusion'.

Bechetdiagnosed · 10/11/2018 17:10

These threads are always the same! One poster mocking another for their so called “delusions” etc.

Jason - you are either open to the concept of finding faith or you are not.

You are obviously not. God’s spirit cannot work within you as you are closed to him. Until the day you become open to him (if ever) then all this will baffle you.

As you were so condescending earlier in the thread, I’m certaibly not going to waste time trying to make you understand.

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 17:11

But lots of religious delusion is harmful, and has been throughout history. Benign delusions (religious, schizophrenic, etc) may not be harmful - but they are still an illness.

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 17:15

God’s spirit cannot work within you as you are closed to him. Until the day you become open to him (if ever) then all this will baffle you.
How and when did you come become open to him, how can I become open, what needs to happen? I'm not mocking anyone and I've learnt a lot. However I will not accept accusations just because I try to understand. You might not like my posts, but really I am trying to learn something, which I think I have a little from both Noego and leaf.

Bechetdiagnosed · 10/11/2018 17:26

How can you be open?

By listening and learning. Go to a church. Study theology. Read the bible. But be open to what you find out.

Your secular mind is closed to God’s word. Because it is incomprehensible to you, nothing God does to show you he is with you gets through.

As I said earlier. You have two choices. Accept that when you die, you are dead. End of.

Or, you wonder if there’s a heaven and life eternal with God and so you explore that concept.

leafbud · 10/11/2018 17:29

Mental illness occurs across humanity in different societies. Yes, people who are religious can get mentally ill, just as people who are not religious can also get mentally ill. Which suggests to me religion is not a causal factor of mental illness. If I contracted a common cold would you say it was because I was religious? I have had a common cold and am also religious....

leafbud · 10/11/2018 17:33

But lots of religious delusion is harmful

As is lots of non religious delusion, (I can fly, I am invincible). I think the thing is harmful delusion is harmful.

Vitalogy · 10/11/2018 17:38

how can I become open, what needs to happen? Jason did you watch the video?

leafbud · 10/11/2018 17:40

How and when did you come become open to him, how can I become open, what needs to happen?

In the same way as you are open to any concept or idea being true. You don't dismiss it as soon as you hear it. You don't dismiss it if you cannot prove it's truth. You just hold your judgement. You find out more. You might try out some of what is being asserted a few times. You engage with it.

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 17:42

Vitalogy, I will

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 17:48

By listening and learning. Go to a church. Study theology. Read the bible. But be open to what you find out.

I went to church until I was 13, it succeeded in sounding ridiculous. Why would reading one particular book open my mind, surely I should read more widely, not close my avenues down? I've read the bible -it's just like Aesops fables only with a slightly more difficult vocabulary. Some good ethical stories though (and some bloody horrendous ones) Smile

leafbud · 10/11/2018 17:55

Mark 11:244*
Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

Did you believe?

leafbud · 10/11/2018 17:59

Why would reading one particular book open my mind, surely I should read more widely, not close my avenues down?

I'll let you into a, not so secret, secret, I have read far many more books than the Bible. Added to this, reading the Bible has helped my understanding of other books, very old and very new.

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 18:03

Leaf
It seems the bible is more than just an old book to you. Quoting from one old book doesn't mean anything to me, they're just old (well meaning) words. Why should I take heed from that book,mover say the Torah, or the Quran?

leafbud · 10/11/2018 18:05

Forget about 'should'. The question is whether you do.

Vitalogy · 10/11/2018 18:09

surely I should read more widely, not close my avenues down? I agree. I have issues with calling God He as well, I find it really unhelpful, not that I think it's a She btw. I'm not saying the bible can't be helpful in finding the truth but it sounds like you've had a good go at that avenue already. It's just finding the thing that helps you the most. It's like all the different speakers/teachers too. The ones I like the most might not suit the next person.

I'm not accusing you of having a big ego, lol. Everyone has one to a certain degree. That has to subside enough to be open enough, even if it's only for a short while to give a glimpse.

Bechetdiagnosed · 10/11/2018 18:15

As I said. You are closed.

Been there, done that. End of.

I hope you find God’s grace one day. If not, you can’t miss what you don’t have.

As for me, to not have God’s grace now I’ve found it would be like losing a close relative. But I suspect you’ll consider that “delusional” Grin

Vitalogy · 10/11/2018 18:22

As I said. You are closed. I've noticed some progress over these passed few months, sometimes it's two steps forward one step back but still. The man seems to be trying.

leafbud · 10/11/2018 18:22

Another thing which I think a good exercise is to reread the New Testament when an adult. Find a translation you get on with. Find the things you agree with and the things you'd like to be true. Think about the implications of those things you'd like to be true being true. How that'd affect your life. Whether you like the new life you would live presuming those things were true. See what that tells you. If you like what you find out you can decide to work on believing it.

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 23:28

Noego
Indulge for 15 minutes
Thank you for sharing the video. A form of introspective mindfulness, but trying to take the mind out of the equation. In my opinion, if you remove the mind from the person, you are left with a zombie. The leap from emptying your 'self' of your mind to then reach some exalted state of being, I just don't get it. In my opinion, my mind does define who I am. To leave that is to leave me. I'm sceptical also as to why, why do we need to unhook the mind, unless there are mind based problems to overcome? To search for and understand things the greatest thing I have is my mind. An altered (mind-less) consciousness may help relive stress, or relax after a hard day, but it won't help figure out how to pay my bills, or what food to get when I go shopping. So, I nice relaxation technique but no great awakening.

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 23:34

Leaf
Find the things you agree with and the things you'd like to be true. Think about the implications of those things you'd like to be true being true. How that'd affect your life. Whether you like the new life you would live presuming those things were true. See what that tells you. If you like what you find out you can decide to work on believing it.
You're back on that book again! What about other books, could I take your same suggestions and apply them? I like the idea of the invisibility cloak in Harry Potter. How much good I could do and harm I could prevent. If I like these outcomes and start to believe in the cloak, will it be true? Would you accept my belief as worthy of consideration?

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 23:36

Vitalogy
You sound like you're my therapist SmileSmile

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 23:38

Bechetdiagnosed
As for me, to not have God’s grace now I’ve found it would be like losing a close relative. But I suspect you’ll consider that “delusional”
No, I'd be sorry for your loss, which to you would be real.

Vitalogy · 11/11/2018 02:47

You sound like you're my therapist Grin

it won't help figure out how to pay my bills, or what food to get when I go shopping. That's when it's useful. This thing that's being discussed here can't be experienced that way. That's when it's a hinderance.

I nice relaxation technique but no great awakening. How do you know if you won't even consider it, let alone try it.

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