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Original poster

Guidance sought

207 replies

MillieMallard · 03/11/2018 22:35

Have namechanged. I’m a Catholic and am active in my church. I go to Mass regularly. I abide by the teachings. I have been listening to faith leaders from my own and other denominations and faiths online for some time now. I also have friends with other faiths, Christian denominations and general outlooks.

I need to talk to someone because I need to discuss some faith questions but I can’t talk to my priest. The reason for this is that I know him very well which sounds contradictory but as he is embroiled in my whole life, I need neutrality. Also, he is always so busy that I don’t want to be an inconvenience. There’s lots more to this but I don’t want to out myself. A key area though is that my friend’s partner is a leader in another faith and believes I am not saved because I am Catholic. I’ve listened to information from so many avenues that I’ve been overloaded in my quest for an answer and just would like someone neutral with some theological knowledge to talk to. Any ideas? Also I haven’t come in here to be slated by atheists as seems to happen on so many other forums. Please help with any useful suggestions. I feel desperate. I just don’t know where to turn.

OP posts:
leafbud · 10/11/2018 08:23

I thought I was getting somewhere - then you post this! I'm back to square one I'm afraid.

Really? Is it the word Divinity you don't like? I expect you can recognise (constructive) good/benevolence, to some degree and see that good in other people and ideas.

leafbud · 10/11/2018 08:25

Regarding good, I often get a deep emotional response (tears of joy or relief, for example) Wink

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 09:28

it may be on your deathbed
A real cop out this one. Something may happen that makes me realise this isn't all mumbo jumbo, but it might not be until I die, by which time it's too late. Can't argue against this, because there's no way of sharing the knowledge when I'm dead.

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 09:30

I have no problem with the word divinity - it's the logic of the sentence it was used in that made no sense to me.

leafbud · 10/11/2018 09:35

Jason, so, if you don't want knowledge to reach you when you are on your deathbed, because that is too late for your liking, perhaps you should be seeking it now. As I have said earlier, the way you think can direct your perceptions in what information your mind is prepared to dismiss or accept and begin to process.

Matthew 7:77* says,
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:"

Why not give it a try? You've nothing to lose, except, perhaps, old habits.

leafbud · 10/11/2018 09:41

I have no problem with the word divinity - it's the logic of the sentence it was used in that made no sense to me.

What is wrong with the logic? As an analogy, it is like when you hold a particular quality in high esteem, you do all you can to develop that quality in yourself and you are drawn to that quality in other people.

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 14:29

Divinity has affinity with itself? What on this earth is that supposed to mean, that's what I don't understand.

noego · 10/11/2018 15:11

@Jason118

Divinity has affinity with itself? What on this earth is that supposed to mean, that's what I don't understand

The greeting Namaste means. I bow to the divine within you. A recognition that the divine within me recognises the divine within you. So there is an affinity with itself. A relationship. Even though the recipient of the greeting might not (as yet) recognise it within themselves.

What on this earth is that supposed to mean

It is not earthly.

It may be on your deathbed

I certainly hope you discover it before then. Why wait until your body ceases to discover heaven. Why not find it now in this lifetime, as in 'heaven on earth'

Heaven is complete peace of mind, full of love and joy.

What you're looking for, is where you are looking from. (I know you're rolling your eyes again :) ) Seriously contemplate this!

leafbud · 10/11/2018 15:12

What I mean is, what attributes a person agrees with, values and holds in high esteem, is taken to heart and that person will begin to emulate those attributes. Those attributes become part of them in their thoughts, actions and habits. They will recognise and be drawn to those attributes in other people. If those attributes are Divine, this means the part of a person that involves Divine attributes (the Divine part of them) has affinity with Divine attributes (the Divine part of others) in other people. Divinity therefore, having an affinity with Divinity.

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 15:26

Thank you for the explanation leaf - it seems you are saying that goodness attracts goodness, which would be great. I don't really see what divinity has to do with nice people inclining to fraternise with nice people. The same could be said about bad people - they attract likeminded people. It's the constant need you seem to have to attribute perfectly normal social behaviours to something 'other'. There's no need for it.

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 15:29

Neogo, you seem to suggest that not finding something other is a decision that I've made, absolutely not, I'm constantly curious about stuff, from engineering, to social history, to genetics, to theology and many other things. But making stuff up as a way to peace, it's easier to be peaceful from within, without having to subscribe to anything 'other'.
Thanks for engaging, I think I must be trying your patience a little Smile

leafbud · 10/11/2018 15:39

without having to subscribe to anything 'other'.

Jason, you keep describing the Divine/God as 'other'. I believe Divinity/God can be part of ourselves (the good part), if we accept that Divinity/God. For me, as a Christian, I believe God is not 'other' but part of me.

leafbud · 10/11/2018 15:41

And since I believe we are made in God's image, I believe the good part of other people has originated from the Divine also, whether they acknowledge this or not.

noego · 10/11/2018 15:45

@Jason118

I think I must be trying your patience a little

Not at all. I have infinite patience :)

It is up to you to find your way.

leafbud · 10/11/2018 15:52

I don't really see what divinity has to do with nice people inclining to fraternise with nice people. The same could be said about bad people - they attract likeminded people.

I look for the good in everyone I engage with.

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 15:52

Leaf
And therein lies the difference - you base all on belief which to me is not rational; just another made up thing.

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 15:54

Noego
I'm finding it thank you.

leafbud · 10/11/2018 15:57

Jason, it doesn't matter to me whether it seems rational. I don't rely on merely what I can process fully at the time but as I described earlier what I feel is right. Often the more full explanation comes later for me in retrospection. This is very helpful, I find, especially when circumstances require quick responses.

leafbud · 10/11/2018 16:02

The more rational explanation to this obviously lies within our amazing subconscious instinctive abilities as human beings Wink. I believe in engaging with the Divine through Christianity we change ourselves at a subconscious as well as conscious level.

Romans 10:177*
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

leafbud · 10/11/2018 16:05

base all on belief which to me is not rational; just another made up thing.

As I said earlier, what we think, that is what we believe, can change who we are, how we act and how we interact with the word around us. We can change the world around us. So what we believe manifests physically in the world. Belief is the beginning of a literally creative process.

leafbud · 10/11/2018 16:09

making stuff up

Ironic this because we sort of do this but literally! As in stuff does get made/created! Grin

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 16:19

As I said earlier, what we think, that is what we believe, can change who we are, how we act and how we interact with the word around us. We can change the world around us. So what we believe manifests physically in the world. Belief is the beginning of a literally creative process.

I agree, but belief doesn't have to be in something other - that to me is akin to madness, or at least a delusion. Believe in deeds, thoughts, actions, by all means, but again, irrational belief makes no sense, by definition.

noego · 10/11/2018 16:28

@Jason118

Indulge for 15 minutes

leafbud · 10/11/2018 16:31

belief doesn't have to be in something other - that to me is akin to madness, or at least a delusion.

As I said earlier, I don't regard the Divine to be 'something other' but part of us and indeed everything around us. I am simply engaging with that Divinity. Just because we, as human beings, cannot process all that is good / Divine does not mean it is not there. I don't know all there is to know so I fully expect there to be things I cannot fully process.

Madness and delusions are indicative of a mental illness which is a dysfunction. My faith is an extremely functional part of my life which is enabling and enriching not harmful.

Jason118 · 10/11/2018 16:43

Madness and delusion do not always manifest as harmful.