touchy subject i know...

[loopylou6]

but what does everyone think about what the dream pyschic has to say about madeleines dissapearance?

It is FAITH! There is no need for evidence with faith.

One of the nice things about it.

UD: I don't mean that he just reads my mind on the usual stuff because he knows me really well. I mean that he picks things out of my mind that he can in no way know that I am thinking about: eg:

a song comes on the radio, I remember that I used to sing this when I was 6. I remember the best friend I had when I was 6 and her brother who was a bit naughty, and his friend who's birthday was on the same day as mine, and I remember the birthday party that we shared one year, and I wonder what dp is going to get me for my birthday (which is still months away) and he says "I'm going to get you a breadmaker" I say "what?" and he says "for your birthday"

Watch it Flame, I'll give your dd a fruit shoot tomorrow.

Anyway Richard Dawkins does seem to believe in God, it's just that everyone tries to understand and define it differently.
And if we think we have the answers already then we aren't open to learning. So someone full of doubt and questions about religion is more likey to find answers than someone who thinks they have 'the truth' in a nutshell.
The whole point though is that it's bigger than us, undefinable. If God was definable it wouldn't be God it would be a thing. It can't be controlled. I think that our brains are not capable of comprehending what God really is so the act of praying is not contained inside ourselves and it can't be put into words.

Flamesparrow - that is untrue. I've had equally passionate arguments with Christians on here. As fpr Muslims, I just haven't met any here.

this is just going round in circles. uqd i don't see what you're trying to achieve here apart from patronising peoples beliefs or interests.

madamez , YOU dont believe there is such thing as phychic powers, its not to black and white for everyone.

Like Stg I cant face trying to explain , there is no explaning really , you believe , you dont believe. I dont evangelise , its not neccessary.

I agree shrinkinglilly.

squonk - but put it in context. How many times a week are you thinking about something when he doesn't come out with a comment about it? Thousands, possibly millions. We only notice these things when we think there is some sort of pattern there.

Lily - you have obviously read the Ruth Gledhill interview with Dawkins (?) He patently does not believe in God - that's absurd. He's written a 400-page book to explain as much. Set that against one newspaper interview full of weasel words and out-of-context quotes.

Ah that's ok then, I do feel slightly better if I know that the Christians get this to put up with too

Surfer... you really don't wanna do that unless you want to keep her overnight

I know I get disproportionately annoyed about these things, but it just frustrates me.

Every other section of Mumsnet makes me think I am having discussions with level-headed, intelligent people who are able to debate their views and offer evidence for them, however different they may be from my own. (Even the faith-schoolers, which is probably the area where I have had the strongest disagreements with people.)

But every time I read something on here I wonder what century we are actually living in.

UD, no I haven't read his book what's it called I would like to. I like to read all angles. People who really are not spiritual don't even think about it never mind write a book.

Lily - he would not even accept the word "spiritual", I feel. I can't see the logic of saying that you wouldn't write a book to debunk something you don't agree with. That's like saying a Labour politician could never have a debate about Conservative policies, or that a vegetarian couldn't write an article about why they think meat-eating is wrong.

It's called "The God Delusion". It's the latest one of several he has written, but the first to address his atheism directly.

Oh FFS UQD, there you go again with a veiled insult.

And where exactly is the evidence offered on any of the religions?

You don't believe, that's fine. I applaud you for the strength of your convictions. That does not give you the right to constantly try to belittle people who have differing convictions.

As for the century we life in! What the hell has that got to do with anything?

to me i just find it a fascinating subject. as i said earlier i'm on the fence, but find your approach (especially bringing out the 'level headed' 'intelligent' comments) perplexing.

so you don't believe. others do. live with it. unless you want to start a world crusade against all religions who believe in a giant invisible being.

(if so i doubt mumsnet is the place to do it)

I think its a really interesting site.

I also like to keep an open mind which would seem others here don't

StG, you don't seem to get that I am having a go at no particular belief. I agree with you, there is no evidence for the Gods of ANY religion.

If it's such a fascinating subject - and it may well be - then why do people consistently refuse to engage with it?

I actually do find the idea of humans being able to do more with their minds than they realise fascinating, but then I find lots of outlandish ideas fascinating. I just don't have to believe they are true.

If supernatural forces exist - BRING THEM ON, ffs, show me how and why they work, show me the controlled experiments which test them, cite the independent research, give me examples and case studies.

It's what I would expect if I said something controversial.

I keep an open mind.
Just not so open that my brains fall out.

Anyway, I'm off out. You can all bitch about me while i'm gone.

Fine, you disagree with religion.

Just stop bloody insulting people who do believe.

Simple.

UD: He always knows what I'm thinking, but 99% of the time it can be explained by the fact that we have been together for ages and he just knows the way my mind works. The times that he does it when it can't be explained, because I'm thinking about something that happened before I met him are the ones I notice, yes... but there is no time, ever, that he doesn't know what is going on in my head. Unless I put him on the spot and say "what am I thinking about"

StGeorge, the reason rational people get tetchy with all the gloopy-eyed believers, whatever their delusions (and I have the same range of feelings, from indulgent derision for the harmless to activist outrage against the abusive ones, for all the different brands of superstitious, unreasoning faith) is that the believers won't accept anything less than "well, durr, maybe there's something out there." There isn't. Even though perfectly nice, sincere people engage in any manner of odd ritual behavious that they think might win them the favour of their imaginary friends, the laws of physics remain unchanged.

squonk, I wouldn't like my dh to read my mind all the time!

Ud, you are funny. I hope something powerful that you can't explain happens to you soon

shrinkinglily - I do have to be careful sometimes

UD: I did mention, did I not, that dp is a scientist which I think just goes to show that there are some things on this Earth that just cannot be explained. Probably science will come up with a perfectly logical explanation, but as yet, we don't know what it is.

Remember, scientists used to believe that the Sun went round the Earth.

Bog off madamez.