Chat across the great divide

[thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts]

So this is a bit of an experiment. Threads in this part of MN can get very heated and it is easy to loose sight of the person behind the screen so this is a place to chat and get to know each other whether we are christians, atheists, muslims or whatever. It isn't a place for proving that your viewpoint is right. It is more a place find out what it is like to walk in another person's shoes and that requires empathy, listening, tact and the maturity. We all know that tone is hard online as we just have words and a jokey comment ends up offending where not offence was intended. So to borrow a term from across the Atlantic - don't be a jerk and if you mess up, fess up. We are posting from places of safety (homes, offices, coffee shops) about things we hold dear. So be kind.

Maybe introduce ourselves?

I'm a vicar who was an atheist from 12-18 but I started exploring Christianity at university. The thing that keeps me going through long days is builders tea, non of your herbal rubbish, and plain chocolate digestives.

Anyone else?

I'd love to join in. Can I make a couple of pleas?
Please don't tell atheists they are only interested in talking about belief and philosophy because they are, unknown to themselves, seeking for God.
Please don't say that atheism is a belief system.
Please don't say that science is a belief system.
Please don't say that atheists can't possibly have a moral compass.
And please don't deny that christians have a privileged position in our society.

Or, if you do say any of those things, be prepared to defend your position-don't say that you're being persecuted for your faith if people disagree with you.
Oh, and please believe that I would say that about Islam.

Well done greenheart - let's give it a go.

ok... I'm a Christian, and was atheist from 18-44 and a half. My faith is now hugely important to me and I hold fairly orthodox beliefs (in the resurrection and so on). I go to a fairly MOTR C of E church in a big city, and I suppose I'm a little bit Anglo-Catholic with charismatic tendencies! I'm a huge fan of my church, but not always of 'the' church and my politics and theology go hand in hand - socialist, feminist, radically inclusive.

I get easily hurt by some of these discussions though sometimes because although I was an atheist for a long time (so I really do get it) my faith still feels quite new and precious and I'm very protective of it and probably over-sensitive, so I may dip and out a bit! My DP is fanatically anti-religion so I'm used to the conflict, but really tired of it.

I'm definitely weighing in thank you for starting the platform green

I'm happy with all the rules and willing to adhere to them.

I'm a gobby, late 20's mum of a toddler and non believer, member of the British Humanist Society and I work in children's publishing.
Always felt out of place and at times unwelcome in places of worship. I always found the 'seriousness' of faith I encountered a bit silly (as a child)

I had the 'something missing' feeling in my teens and turned straight to religion, I explored Mormonism, evangelicalism and lots more. I never got a 'click' whilst listening to or reading the opinions of theologians, but I did with non believers and sceptics. It never occurred to me that choosing not to adhere to religion at all was an option.

I was very close to my biology teacher at school, she was a creationist who believed god started everything created everything, even the process of natural selection. She taught me all about nature, and the amazing things the natural world is capable of. But I could never square that god had anything to do with it.

Then I discovered dawkins who explained eloquently how you dont have to believe god was responsible for things in the natural world.

Rest is history!

Happy to answer any questions and anyone not happy with what I ask them can bow out at any time without judgement.

Also apologies to anyone I've been a dick to on this board particularly pickles dione and niminy

Sorry-forgot the biog. I am a lifelong atheist (I say atheist as shorthand, but technically obviously agnostic because of the whole not proving a negative thing). I love the trappings of religions, the music, the architecture, the KJV. I have an atheist dd currently doing a degree in Theology, and an atheist ds looking forward to taking RE further in 6th form next year. My attitude to religion is probably best summed up by whoever said "The garden is so incredibly beautiful-why do you need [forgive me for this] fairies at the bottom of it?" I am in awe of human achievement and the wonders of nature.
Incidentally, I think that people deserve respect but religion doesn't.

Hello everyone. I'm an integrative, psychodynamic therapist in my mid 40s. I was an atheist until my late 20s and now I believe in god. I have a 10yo atheist DS and am now 18 wks into a surprise pregnancy.

My DP is agnostic and my family are atheists, agnostics and various Christian denominations.

Hi edd thanks for joining in,

It's time to lay down some ground rules of discussion with your dp! Maybe if you are happy to have a discussion on beliefs with them, dont be afraid to say 'im leaving the discussion here and going away to think about it before I answer' type thing.

If its ok to ask, and its my go to question to people in your 'category' (if you like); What happened to turn you to faith, after such a long time as a non believer?

Edd- just to say I would find it incredibly difficult if the man I have shared a life with for a long time suddenly had such a radical change of view. So I do think you need to cut him a lot of slack-you are a fundamentally different person now, and he needs to get used to it.

Let's leave my DP out of this thread (Bert you and I have talked at length about that in the past.) She's not a man though.

Ollie the short answer is nothing. No crisis, illness, bereavement, no identifiable trigger at all. The longer answer is that I felt God tapping me on the shoulder. Calling me to notice. I struggled briefly (a couple of months) - with the WTF, and that can't be, and how could he - but I was really drawn, to God and to church. I talked to people on both 'sides' about it (here, including many who are still here and active on these kinds of threads) and started to find myself agreeing more with theists than atheists. And then I had a sort of big old sucker-punch Holy Spirit conversion road to Damascus stylee too, when I first went back to church. And since then although I've had doubts frequently I haven't looked back.

Sorr, edd. I didn't recognize you.

And, with respect, it was you that brought your dp into it.........!

S'ok Bert. You're right I did. Was just explaining my situation, not wanting to discuss all that again though!

I dont know why edd we have never spoken before, but I had a weird feeling your dp wasn't male! I originally typed 'him' and went back and changed it to 'they' just in case!

When do you usually feel yourself doubting?

Watching this thread with interest.

I am an atheist, have been that way since I was able to think for myself.
Some of my family are deeply religious, this has caused great family rifts.

When I first realised I didn't have, and was incapable of faith, I had lots of doubts and a period of sadness too sort of like ' what if I'm wrong' feeling. Thats before I found 'my people' and before it dawned on me that I can choose not to believe anything!

Good to have you here westray

ollie thanks.

I have been through some hideous times in my past.
I did think at one point if I had faith things would get better. I remember kneeling with a ( religious) family member in tears begging god to come into my life.
Nope. Nothing happened.

In fact my life went from bad to worse.
It's only by my own efforts and developing a spiritual but atheist path that I now find myself in a very happy place in my life.

I had the 'what if I'm wrong' feeling when I was an atheist and I have it too now I'm a believer. Now it's worse because there's quite a lot riding on it in some ways, but overall I'm very settled in my faith. I don't doubt because of specific things.

edd- I don't know hoe usual that feeling is.

Most christians I know would not even consider the idea of having it wrong.

But then all the christians I know are fervent.

Yes, there are different approaches to doubt certainly. I'd say that most thinking people (on both sides) sometimes admit to doubt - but I don't know fundamentalist Christians. A book on prayer I read (written by a Bishop) claimed that doubt is integral to faith, and I subscribe to that pov!

The 'what if I'm wrong?' feeling is normal. It gains greater intensity on a cold wet Sunday when there is an early service and I don't fancy getting out of bed to lead it.....although to be serious it really is part of the normal landscape of faith. I can feel as if I'm praying into a vacuum for weeks or months and then there is a moment of connection or a sense of bumping into,the divine superstructure. I suppose that is what keeps me going through the dry times.

I must admit that I hadn't come across the 'fervent' Christians (great term btw) until I started going online. I suppose we do live in bubbles and it was a shock when I encountered my first creationist. He stopped coming to our ministers prayer breakfast thingy because he thought they were too liberal and wish washy which was surreal as most were well into the conservative stream. So,getting out of bubbles is good and challenging.

One of the biggest things I wonder from an atheist perspective, is how does a believer chose how literally to take their respective religious texts? I know some.christians for example, who take the bible very literally indeed, but others (which from personally experience I have found to be the more welcoming and liberal christians) seem to know which bits are ok to ignore, or treat as a metaphor and not take it literally.

I know that alone can cause divide within Christianity.

Sorry x post green

I thought creationism was quite a rare view in uk, but I have a lot of them living near me. I was very surprised when I met my first (he chose to open a debate with us) and he was, and continues to be, very well versed in the creationist arguments.

I'll be interested to see if there are any who crop up on this thread...