Christian chat thread continued

[Dutchoma]

A place to share and chat about our funny (and not so funny experiences) in and out of church.
Did anyone say coffee? That would be good

Yes, you're right greenheart, I've found that before. I think the truth is that I need a bit more intellectual stimulation than I'm getting in the parish and need to find a way to get it.

I so wish you could come and join me niminy

Done the two introductory sessions on the Bishops cert course. Church history starts next week (And I have to prep session 2 of Ecclesiastes). What have I become? Loving it.

I used Paula Gooder's Journey to the Manger as our Advent book a few years ago. I used it as my Advent preparation and referenced it in sermons. Those that read the book got something out of reading it along with me but no one wanted to meet to discuss it.

I would have greenheart

I'm getting so tired of the constant battle with DP. She tells me so often that my beliefs are just crazy. A few people I know are serious God-botherers like me, and the rest think I'm nuts. Sometimes I wonder if I am actually just losing it. She's sure I'll wake up one day and realise this was all just some deluded phase. Will I ?

No EDD, you won't lose your faith, because Jesus is more real that Julius Caesar or Napoleon. You'll just have to agree to differ.
Am I right in thinking that DP refuses to look into the matter of why you believe and she does not?

Oh Edd it must be so wearing to be living with that level of criticism. It's no wonder that you doubt yourself and your faith.

There are just two things I would say. The first is that it's not like you have had the kind of magical thinking conversion where suddenly you have the answer to everything. One of the best sermons I ever heard described struggle as the material of faith, and though sometimes God is so near and we feel the brush of the Holy Spirit's wing, that kind of struggle as we reorient ourselves to God and learn what it is to live his way involves our whole self, and all our experience. Whatever happens, you can't lose the ways that has shaped you.

And that's the other thing. I heard someone say once, and have found it always to be true, that people who pray are people who it does us good to be with - even when they are themselves tired or ill or low - because prayer does something that we can't ourselves feel. DP (and others) may say you're crazy, but because you know and love Jesus that has an effect on her, even if she doesn't know it.

Also, I have times when I think I'm nuts. I blessed someone's marriage the other day and had to say 'the church believes marriage is between a man and a woman' and I felt like shouting out loud 'no I don't flipping believe that actually', and have thought ever since, what madness is this that I've signed up to a job where I have to say it?

I love that about the Holy Spirit's wings, niminy.

Dear Edd, it must be so very wearing. I think all of us thinking Christians probably go through the 'am I just deluded' thing, but then God whispers in our ears and we have that assurance that's so hard to explain - a beautiful knowledge. It sounds like you're so excited about things of faith at the moment, and dp will be picking that up, and possibly feeling threatened. But keep holding on - God is holding on to you, and will never let you go.

oma she is just absolutely convinced that there is no evidence for God, and that all religion is a force for evil in the world, and that there is no God, and even if there were it would be wrong to follow him and she is 100% convinced of her rightness. She thinks I have been 'captured' so I can no longer see sense and that one day I will wake up. On a good day we can agree to differ, but there aren't so many of them as you all know.

And mhd I'm sure you're right, she feels unloved, and the fact that there's been a short run of church things together hasn't helped.

niminy Hm, yes, an effect. But not a welcome one. And I feel so much to blame for all this, but I am powerless to fix it. I pray and hope that God will show me how, but it's not looking likely . I suppose the trouble is that I don't trust that I can pray in a way that makes a difference to anybody, or to live as God wills, and I think the fact that I'm a crap disciple is why I've allowed all this trouble to happen, and if only I could love her enough, and as I should, then it would all be ok, and it isn't because I've failed. By which I mean I've failed Jesus and I've failed her.

But thank you all for your support. You are all lovely and I'm sorry for moaning. I'll be back to normal soon :)

Just wanted to add my support Edd. DH has a complex history with the church in general, and I'm fortunate that he is quite accepting (mostly), but it is hard. Particularly when DD says that Mass is boring, she doesn't want to go and just wants to hang out with Dad who NEVER goes to church anyway so there's no need is there? Haven't really worked out the answer to that. Nor have I worked out the answer to "why does your husband not come to church to support you?" which I get from other churchgoers.. God knows, I'm sure.

The Bishops' cert course sounds fascinating - how is it going?

New priest starts this weekend. I really enjoyed the discussion on church music a while back: it was really timely as we now have three (3!!) volunteers for church music - one guitarist who is now in charge of the music once a month and likes worship songs, one organist who is now in charge of the music the rest of the time and likes traditional hymns, and me, who sings what I'm told. Fair enough.

What I find hardest about worship songs is that I miss the congregational singing. I love it when I lead a hymn and you can't hear my voice for the congregation joining in; they can be quite easy to teach and the best of them can make a joyful sound. The worship songs I've been asked to sing so far have felt more like a performance which I've liked less. Do churches which use worship songs more often find that they lend themselves to congregational singing?

Would dearly love to start introducing some traditional gospel music to our church but I suspect that wouldn't go down well...

Hello everyone .
Have been lurking but not posting as have fallen off the wagon a bit. Been thinking of you all though.

Edd , sorry to hear things are so tough with dp. Please don't place the blame on your own shoulders. Of course it must be difficult for her to see you so involved with something she hates but surely being in an adult relationship means compromise, and trying to respect and accept the other's point of view
Pigeon I actually envy you having a selection of different music. Anyone that tries anything different from 19th century dirge at ours is promptly scorned. :s

Thanks Pigeon. That sounds good that you have more music going on now. Perhaps the issue with the worship songs is just that people don't know them yet? They will if they hear the same ones often enough, surely? I imagine the new priest will have ideas on that front too?

DoubleG Good to see you. which wagon have you fallen off? Hope all is well?

The vicar has now asked me to lead bible study basically by myself from now on (2 x 4 weeks per year) which is flattering..! she will be there but it's all up to me. gulp. Session 2 tomorrow. Hope it wasn't a one-off fluke!

Lurker here.
Edd I am sorry you and your partner are having a difference of opinion. Just remember it's not your job to convince her of anything. That is God's job. Maybe talk to her about something funny or interesting that happened at church so she can see how much you enjoy/need to go. She could use the time when you are at church for herself eg go for a walk/cycle/coffee and then you can join her after with hopefully both of you refreshed and joyful.
The main thing I wanted to say is about praying. It's true some people seem to have a seemingly very direct line to God with prayers answered quickly. But they only SEEM to. I started to keep a prayer diary and it's amazing how many of those prayers are actually answered. Some quickly, some later, some in a different way than expected but they are answered. Have you considered keeping a prayer diary? God loves to hear from you. I usually listen to worship songs on my way to work and sometimes pray then although it's usually when I go to bed at night. It helps me to picture Jesus when I pray.

Also just wanted to say...............REV RICHARD COLES.....love him so much!

For those that remember my kids were having problems starting secondary. I wouldn't say they are especially enjoying it due to not finding close friends yet but they seem OK about going in now so that's an improvement.
All prayers appreciated for them to make some new friends. I tried to encourage you to daughter to go to a Christian club but she didn't as thinks everyone is much older. I personally think it would be a great club as the older kids might look after her.

Pigeon in my experience it takes a bit longer to learn the worship songs (depending on the song of course!), but its worth it in the end. People can be as comfortable belting them out as some of the more traditional numbers, and personally i find them a bit more intimate, but some traditional ones do it for me too! Had some great worship experiences with both.

Edd that's wonderful about the Bible study - your vicar obviously recognises your gifting! So pleased. Praying for situation with dp

Hey double, great to hear from you. Hope you are okay.

Pigeon, we use worship songs and hymns and once the worship songs are known they are just as belted out in the congregation and can be absolutely wonderful. We did 'i stand amazed in the presence' yesterday and everyone gave it some welly, it was brilliant. Some worship songs are definitely more congregation friendly than others, though. I love the song Oceans for eg but have never been convinced it's great congregationally (except at something like new wine where thousands are worshipping together) - what tends to work are those songs which are more hymn like in format I think - say Cornerstone, This I Believe, O Praise the Name, in Christ alone etc etc. Some shorter choruses work well but not all!

We mostly use worship songs and the odd classic hymn gets sung loudly. Being able to predict where the tune will go definitely helps with the singing.

Alpha much better this week. Saw a new side to the vicar. Find the discussion more interesting than the talks.

That's great about the Bible study Edd - lovely to see your gifts being recognised and nurtured. I wish I could come! But I've been asked to join a theology study group for the diocese, which I'm really, really happy about. It feels like an answer to prayer as my curacy has been quite difficult so far.

Feeling rather worn out today as we have started an outdoor church on Sunday afternoons once a month. Yesterday we had about 30 people building a hedgehog house and two dens in the wild bit of our churchyard, making prayer flags to fly on the dens, sitting round a campfire with smores and listening to the story of St Francis and reading the Canticle of the Sun. It was exhilarating but I was exhausted when I got home.

That's great news niminy about the theology group. Also the outdoor church which sounds excellent. We don't have anything like that. Food for thought.

cherrypi Glad alpha is improving. I've never done it, but I love discussing all things faith, so I expect I'd like that part (not a big fan of any of the video-based Christian courses I've seen though!)

pigeon the course is brill so far. There are six modules across the year that cover:
• Exploring our identity and the church
• Remembering the people of God and the Old Testament
• Following Jesus through the New Testament
• Believing the teachings of the Church: questions of faith and doctrine
• Challenging mission: Christian ethics and lifestyle in the modern world
• Responding to the Holy Spirit in prayer, worship and discernment
Each module consists of ten hours teaching, short study activities and optional assignments that include a
variety of practical activities, reflective journals and essays.
Or so they say. We'll see how it goes.

That sounds great, Edd. Lots to cover and talk about. Fantastic.

I like the video based courses but mainly for teaching new believers or discussion with seekers, they're good for that. But I like more in depth discussion too, the videos don't go quite far enough, really.

Talking of discussion, poor old dh on clergy conference for 4 days, he really doesn't enjoy them very much, he'd prefer a silent retreat in a monastery (yep - we're complete opposites) - he always ends up feeling drained from them, so praying he actually really enjoys it and gets some great teaching.

Saw this and thought you lot might like it:

the difference between hymns and worship songs

😂😂😂

Ha ha ha still love a good hymn though

I love the sound of that course Edd. mhd how's the book going?

Tee hee

I love a good hymn too, in fact this thread has led to me making an 'old hymns' Spotify playlist and I love it they are all with worship bands though

Niminy - it's going well, but the publishing industry is sooooo sloooooow. Waiting to hear back from my editor about revisions and whether they're taking it forward for definite or not. It's nail biting stuff. And my fiction manuscript is with another publisher who emailed me at the beginning of September saying they'd get back to me in the middle of September. Nothing... It's all very frustrating!! But I love the process.