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Philosophy/religion

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IVF and Catholicity

166 replies

RaisinGirls · 06/04/2016 08:42

I am really struggling at the moment and would appreciate any support you can offer. I have one DD but have also had 3 MC.

After much soul searching I have decided to go for IVF as due to my age I really feel like it's the last roll of the dice, and I would dearly like my DD to have s sibling.

I have now started IVF but can't shake the feeling that what I am doing is wrong as I am a Catholic. I feel deeply guilty by what I am doing and feel like I can't go to Mass anymore. Has anyone a perspective that can help me?

OP posts:
Ciggaretteandsmirnoff · 08/04/2016 18:10

op you must be feeling shattered. I was told at my first clinic that if probally not even be able to harvest any eggs as my egg count was below base level.

I went to another clinic and harvested 12. My three year old has just got in bed and I'm pregnant with my second blast from that harvest. Could you get a second opinion?

But that could just as easily lead to 10 embryos surviving and having the dilemma of what to do with the embryos you can't implant - you could donate them to science.

RaisinGirls · 08/04/2016 18:26

My consultant says I can try again next month but he strongly suspects it will be the same result - the only eggs being inaccessible without risk of bowel perforation / damaging an already doddery ovary.

I tried for many years to get pregnant before I fell pregnant the first time. Sine when I have been pregnant four times (3 MMC / MC and one DD). Each time I was on the verge of IVF - literally had first exploratory chat and then amazingly found myself pregnant. I know some people won't get this but to me if felt like God was saying trust me. But since my last MC in January I felt like maybe God was saying trust in these people with a gift to help you. But that does not fit with my catholic faith, which confuses me and creates the conflict and guilt.

OP posts:
Cottonflossy · 08/04/2016 18:26

Op I'm sorry you didn't have good news. I actually had one cycle where I had no eggs retrieved. I tried again and was successful.

I realised that baselines and amh etc didn't particularly mean anything for me. My body reacted differently during each cycle.

Cake look after yourself op it's very hard going emotionally and physically.

GertrudeBadger · 08/04/2016 18:59

Sorry to hear that op, I hope you get better news the next cycle and the dr is just being a bit pessimistic

Ciggaretteandsmirnoff · 08/04/2016 19:06

Don't be too hard on yourself. IVF even with out any religious interference is a lot to get your head around. It really is a roller coaster of emotions.

Sorry to hear of the multiple MC Flowers my friend has just had her fourth and is now under a consultant. Her family (mother and sisters) want her to stop trying and accept that it's not meant to be but she feels she just can't.

A very good friend of mine is a ministers wife and she very politely asked if I think I should just accept the situation (I've had two eptopics that ruined my tubes) I was quiet taken back by it but I managed to bite my tongue and said 'its not something I'm prepared to give up on just yet'

Give your mind and body a break and then maybe have a look at trying it again if you want to - the consultant said you could try again. Do what you feel is instinctively right as when your old and grey you don't want any regrets.

Good luck and take care op Flowers

allegretto · 08/04/2016 19:24

Cigarette - that's not legal where I had IVF.

OP - sorry to hear what you're going through. I hope you get some good news soon.

defunctedusername · 08/04/2016 20:22

sparechange dont expect critical thinking, confirmation bias will invalidate any information. A lifetimes indoctrination cannot be undone overnight but it is interesting to see that catholics can glimpse the contradiction in their own faith when faced with real life situations.

All I can add to the op is my sincerest thoughts it works out for you and perhaps a question, would you want your own DD to feel sinful if she were in the same situation you are in?

dontcryforme · 08/04/2016 22:53

Ducky please read upthread. A masturbation-free way of collecting sperm for the purposed of assisted conception (for Catholics, Orthodox Jews etc) has already been detailed.

Raisin I'm sorry you didn't have a successful cycle this time. I hope you find a way forward that you're comfortable with and if you do another cycle, do keep in mind the stories of those who had no eggs or no fertilisation on a first cycle but conceived on a future one (my friend being one). I wish you all the best, and for those you encounter through your faith to deal with these issues sensitively and compassionately.

dontcryforme · 08/04/2016 22:57

All the Catholic opponents to IVF should read up on 'natural' IVF too: www.hfea.gov.uk/natural-cycle-ivf.html Just one egg is retrieved per cycle.
Maybe if the cost of this were lowered, more people would choose this route and less excess embryos would be created? It's a well known fact that clinics - whether fully private or NHS self-funded - charge over the odds for treatment, which has the effect of pushing patients to get as much as possible for their money to maximise odds of success.

DioneTheDiabolist · 08/04/2016 23:24

RaisinGirl, please do not let your decision to have IVF put you off going to Mass. I have read your posts and don't so much see a conflict between your actions and your faith, more a conflict between your actions and Catholic dogma.

The good news is that for centuries good Catholics have struggled with their faith and church dogma. And occassionally the church has admitted it was wrong. A few weeks ago I attended a Civil Ceremony where a Catholic priest performed a blessing. It was very lovely and moving.

If he could defy dogma and give mass, I see no reason that you should not defy dogma and attend
mass. The "church" is a very human organisation and as such, gets things wrong. I wish you and your family strength, health and love as you go through your IVF.Thanks

Lweji · 09/04/2016 08:19

I'm really sorry for your news.

My faith perspective is that it's not god"s will that we have or don't have babies. Or anything that happens, really.

It's just chance.
For me god gives me strength in the good and the bad times, and as much as possible is a moral compass.
Like I said from the start the real issue the Catholic Church (and i was explaining rhe CC position, not mine) has with IVF would be destroying the embryos.
You should certainly attend Mass if you want to, regardless, and as you'd not waste embryos, no reason at not not to take Communion.

Mass is not for the "good". Everyone is human and, if anything, people at Mass should be trying to get better, not celebrate how good they are.

Like I also said earlier, there's faith and there's the Church. There's quite a lot in the Church that is tradition rather than what it says on the bible.
The scriptures themselves were written by humans. What God actually wants is, literally, anyone's guess (or point of view).

The main reason I wouldn't have gone through IVF is that I didn't want a baby so badly that I was prepared to go through the procedures, hormone manipulation, etc, even with careful embryo management.
I understand it's different for all, and I was certainly over the moon when it did happen.

If it helps at all, my ds is a single child. He's ok. Single children can be happy and not spoilt at all.
Children with siblings can be miserable and end up not getting along with their siblings at all.

As dogma goes, and while the Church wouldn't be too happy about it, but afaik it wouldn't be a major thing, and if you do want to carry a child, I might consider donated eggs or embryos.
But I would take some time to consider if I wanted a baby so much that I was willing to go through more possible heartache.
Only you can decide what is best for you and your family.

dontcryforme · 09/04/2016 15:54

OP this just came up on my Facebook timeline. I thought it was worth sharing. Hope you're ok. X

Catmuffin · 09/04/2016 20:54

Do you mean the thread has come up on Facebook? Or is there an attachment to your post i'm not seeing?

idontlikealdi · 09/04/2016 22:20

I just stumbled across this. My sister is undergoing round 4 of IVF. We're Catholic, she more lapsed than me but I have found this very interesting.

Pope Francis released a new family doctrine today I wonder if this is covered. I'm off to look it up.

dontcryforme · 10/04/2016 16:14

Catmuffin link didn't post... Here we go: www.scarymommy.com/an-open-letter-to-the-woman-who-called-my-ivf-a-sin/

sashh · 08/05/2016 09:14

Has anyone a perspective that can help me?

Madeline McCann and her siblings were all IVF babies. The pope (2007 one) didn't seem to hold it against her parents.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6701819.stm

Sorry this cycle hasn't worked and I wish you all the best if you choose to have another.

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