AIBU to think we need more ^inclusive^ education?

[LoveFoolMe]

AIBU to think we need more inclusive education? If children in a multicultural society such as the UK are educated together surely this promotes more tolerance and better mutual understanding.

So these proposals worry me:

Call to end limit on religious free schools

Considering how divisive and rigid religious attitudes can be, I think it's time to bring children from faith schools into mainstream schools and to encourage these children to mix with more diverse cultures.

Secular schools can still provide fact-based religious education in the classroom and would probably teach their students about a greater range of religions than a faith school would. Parents could, of course, provide a more personal approach to religion for their children outside of school hours if they wanted to.

Let's not further segregate our children by religion.

AIBU to think that reducing (rather than increasing) the number of faith schools in the UK would be far better for our children and far better for our society?

"Yes, but it is accepted that parents should have some say over where and how their children are educated. If some parents feel very strongly that they want their children to be educated in a religious environment I think they have a good case."

Parents should be free to educate their children however they want (within the confines of the law)...but not at the expense of the state.

If religious bodies want to set up privately funded and run schools I don't think anyone is going to stop them per se (provided its within the required legislation and there are no wider concerns).

Currently children are excluded from being awarded places in state schools on their doorstep simply because they don't attend church (or don't the right church). It defies logic.

Not inconsistent at all jessica. I object to a state funded system with huge discrepancies in the quality of schools, mainly because they discriminate against some groups. The private system is not state funded, therefore an entirely different debate.

"It is manifestly unfair that one group has access to a third more tax payer funded schools than another group- and that that disparity is embedded in legislation."

That's not the same as the "inclusion" argument, though obviously it is a valid one in it's own right. As I said, I like the suggestion that parents who want to choose religious education not having equal access to non-religious education.

I think one of the key distictions between private schools and faith schools is that faith schools are largely state funded..... all of the running costs and 90% of the capital costs come from the state for most faith schools. ChazsBrilliantAttitude

This particularly frustrates me. Our taxes go to state schools. All state schools actively teach (or imply to) their children that the faith of that school is fact. Can we have some secular schools please?!

....but it is accepted that parents should have some say over where and how their children are educated. If some parents feel very strongly that they want their children to be educated in a religious environment I think they have a good case. JessicasRabbit

That would only make sense though if there were any non-religious state schools in the UK. There aren't.

"some parents miraculously find jesus when their child is two. Weird." And some of them discover to their horror that their child needed to have found Jesus before 6 months........... BertrandRussell

"I object to a state funded system with huge discrepancies in the quality of schools, mainly because they discriminate against some groups."

That's my point. This is all part of a larger issue and objecting to "faith discrimination" within the state school and having no problem with "wealth discrimination" in state schools (through catchment areas for example) seems inconsistent to me. I agree private schools do seem to be a bit of a red herring, I probably should have left those out.

Sorry, lovefoolme I should have said "an environment with an emphasis on one particular religion", and yes, I do think there is a need for truly secular schools too.

To those of you who think parents should be able to choose faith schools for their children....

Don't you think it's important for those children to learn to live with children of other faiths and cultures?

Don't you think they need to learn that people believe different things, not just their school's version?

I should have said "an environment with an emphasis on one particular religion" JessicasRabbit

Don't they all?

That's my point. This is all part of a larger issue and objecting to "faith discrimination" within the state school and having no problem with "wealth discrimination"

but they are different problems.

Just making all schools better is incredibly difficult. if it wasn't, every country would do it right now. That's like saying we should make the NHS better. Yeah, of course we all want that. The question is how to do it.

However, making schools comply with already existing non-discrimination laws? It's only our making that makes that difficult.

It defies logic.

no it doesn't. How does an unequal discriminatory system continue? Easy. Those who benefit from it stand in the way of reform.

I strongly believe that all state provided education should be secular and that religious education should be provided as a subject, not an ethos.

A referendum on this would be interesting I think.

A referendum on this would be interesting I think.

if the opinions on this thread are representative, we will win!

sadly, they aren't.

I strongly believe that all state provided education should be secular and that religious education should be provided as a subject, not an ethos. SnailSpoon

Well said.

totally agree Snail

religion is personal and should be kept that way

but when ofsted are coming up against opposition of the wearing of niqab to be band in schools, school holidays being around religious holidays (though Christmas/easter) serving of halal and kosher food I guess somewhere you have to make the odd allowance but which allowances

I would prefer none that is being secular but then those who follow a religion will possibly feel discriminated against

Anyone who dismisses social segregation as something trivial should read this and think about the global political situation right now:

The 10 stages of genocide

The first stage is classification into 'them' and 'us'.

Surely there's plenty of food which is both halal and kosher, Enthusiasm? That shouldn't be a problem. Headwear is trickier as it differentiates.

lovefoolme, I think you know what I'm trying to say and are being pedantic. Yes, you should have a choice to send your children to a secular school. But equally, I think that parents should be able to send their children to a Catholic school (for example) if they wish.

"How does an unequal discriminatory system continue? Easy. Those who benefit from it stand in the way of reform."

Not at all easy - I don't benefit from it (no DC) but I'm not convinced that reform is best. I do think that parents should get a say in how their children are educated, and I don't think that should be totally up to the state - even in state funded schools.

"Don't you think it's important for those children to learn to live with children of other faiths and cultures?"

I do think that. I also think that it is important for children to eat healthily and exercise. But I accept that some things (in fact, as many as possible excluding abuse / neglect) should be up to the child's parents to decide.

well it gets complicated as the French are having to deal with this

secular education does not take into account religion at all

so at times I can see that there will have to be some allowances but what

But equally, I think that parents should be able to send their children to a Catholic school (for example) if they wish.

of course you should. But I don't want to pay for it.

Secular schools aren't a form of religion. they are inclusive of everyone. I don't see why people should have a right to a state school that prioritizes their kind.

Pay for it if you want it.

well it gets complicated as the French are having to deal with this

Why copy the french? I absolutely despise the way french do secularism because it treats secularism like a religion.

The way it should be done (more american I guess), is that the state and school are neutral, but the people are not necessarily. So jewish, sikh and muslim kids don't get harassed by schools.

I'm not arguing against secular schools, I just don't think it necessarily reasonable to tell parents that they can ONLY opt for a faith school if they can afford to pay for it.

I just don't think it necessarily reasonable to tell parents that they can ONLY opt for a faith school if they can afford to pay for it.

First, let's assume you disagree with the discrimination at entrance. I assume you don't think parents also have a right to a school that is not only a Catholic school, but one that prioritizes Catholic children.

Second, why should they have that right? A school is a place for education. If people want a place to worship, may I suggest one of those pretty, empty buildings dotted all over the country called... churches! The nice thing about church is that EVERYONE there is present voluntarily. That's what they are for. People are religious, but I don't see why the state should have to carve out space for you. That's what Sunday morning is for. That's what talking to your children is for.

I am not sure how secular education in the States is different from what it is in France

isn't secular education keeping personal beliefs and education separate and the teaching of religion in a non bias or leading way

but then when you do have this other issues will arise as religion/belief's are not a consideration in education

jessica my first post expressed my opinion on the social exclusion/ house price selection. We're in agreement