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Original poster

Compulsive Worship or discrimination for my children at school...

575 replies

recall · 17/07/2015 13:58

My three children attend a Primary school, it is not a CofE School, or any other type of faith school. They have an assembly once a week and "Open the Book" come and act out plays taken from the Bible. At the end, ask the children to prey. My daughter who is 8 said recently that "God does exist" "God is all around us" I asked her who had told her this, and she said it was the Christians in Assembly. She said she bowed her head when everyone preyed because she did not want to upset anyone.

I have spoken to the Headmaster regarding this, and he said they have to have 15 minutes of Christian worship a week.

I feel this is so wrong, that Christians are proselytising to children as young as four at school where I as their parent am legally bound to ensure that they attend. They are being taught individual's personal beliefs as if it is fact. I see this as a violation of their human rights - its is compulsory worship, they are too young to decide whether this is desirable. I am told that I am able to excuse them from these assemblies, but this is segregation and discrimination. It is heart breaking that children are being segregated from each other due to religion in school, a place of education. Christians are free to proselytise anywhere else, why must they do it in schools? This is dividing the community unnecessarily.

So this is my choice as far as I can see it....either I allow the compulsive worship, or my children are excused/excluded.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can come to terms with this ? Sad

OP posts:
Original poster
recall · 19/07/2015 21:55

Yes, there is - Ad hominem

OP posts:
Geekymeeky · 19/07/2015 22:56

Hermione, it's what our laws are based on and it has been a fundamental pillar in making Great Britain great.

I don't fear religion and it's supposed detrimental impact on a person's education. Some of the greatest scientists, who we have much to be thankful for, believed in God.

I don't get why some people's piss get boiled over Christianity. The rage that it incites is bizarre and yet amusing. To raise your kids to be fearful and suspicious of Christians/Christianity and to encourage them to be hostile towards that group of people is terribly sad.

I am not a Catholic but I am hoping to send my son to a Catholic school and I am more than happy for him to participate in prayer, etc. I don't expect these activities to turn him into a reprobate. Far from it.

ravenAK · 19/07/2015 23:21

Can you explain how religious observance in schools has 'been a fundamental pillar in making Great Britain great?'

I'm not fearful or suspicious of Christians (some of my best friends, yadda yadda), & nor are my children. Certainly none of us are 'hostile' towards them. It's just that Christian worship is not something I or my kids feel called to practise.

It would be more respectful, on both sides, if the non-Christians in my dc's school assembly were not obliged to bow the knee to a faith they don't embrace, & the Christians were able to conduct their observance in an opt-in atmosphere of prayerful sincerity.

I don't understand why a Christian would really think 'yep, my prayers feel much better for the presence of a couple of hundred non-believers who've been told to mumble along next to me.'

I don't think it's going to harm the non-Christian attendees at all. It's just rude, disrespectful & inappropriate for everyone involved.

BertrandRussell · 19/07/2015 23:27

"I don't get why some people's piss get boiled over Christianity. The rage that it incites is bizarre and yet amusing. To raise your kids to be fearful and suspicious of Christians/Christianity and to encourage them to be hostile towards that group of people is terribly sad."

You really have no idea what everyone's talking about do you? How very strange.

Original poster
recall · 19/07/2015 23:30

yes ravenAK I too am all ears regarding this fundamental pillar...

The question that I believe has not yet been answered, is why the need to worship in schools ?

OP posts:
Original poster
recall · 19/07/2015 23:46

who said anything about fear and suspicion ? only Geekymeeky

put your straw man away

OP posts:
Geekymeeky · 19/07/2015 23:58

Have you read Hermione's post? Yes there is fear and suspicion littering much of the arguments here.

Strawman? Talk about red herring!

Geekymeeky · 20/07/2015 00:04

Some can't even see the bigger picture. Someone asks how has religious observance in school been a fundamental pillar in making GB great. Come on! Is that what you grasped from what I wrote? Try stretching your thiniking a bit. I should have known to stay away once I read the opening post about 'prey' and 'preyed' and 'preying'.

BertrandRussell · 20/07/2015 00:08

Geeky- this is what you said "Hermione, it's what our laws are based on and it has been a fundamental pillar in making Great Britain great".

ravenAK · 20/07/2015 00:10

I think I grasped what you wrote. The 'pillar' bit looked like it might be good for a giggle if pursued. The rest was you explaining that you didn't 'get' other people's ideas, which I think was already fairly obvious.

Original poster
recall · 20/07/2015 01:09

I have indeed read Hermione's post, several times now, and I can not see any evidence of fear or suspicion - i truly can't .

From you wrote Geekymeeky I grasped that you believe that Christianity is what our laws are based on, and it has been a fundamental pillar in making Great Britain great.

ravenAK then invited you to explain your statement, and it seems to that you are unable to provide any evidence....or....anything... to support it.

This sounds familiar - no evidence - no logic

OP posts:
Original poster
recall · 20/07/2015 01:12

and by the way, I'm quite amused by my ironic misspelling of prey, preyed and preying Grin

OP posts:
cruikshank · 20/07/2015 01:48

I always thought that what made Britain 'great' (when it was deemed to be so) was slavery. I think - can't remember correctly - that there's a bit in the Bible condoning that though, so I guess the claim makes sense.

OP, I am completely with you on this one. These threads come up every now and again and the main arguments in favour of legally obliging four year-olds to take part in religious worship seem to be:

  1. You can opt out.

Ok, so this is true. But as a pp said, why should you have to? Also, there is more to assembly than the worship bit - they get news about what's happening in the school, they get awards and prizes, they have happy birthday sung to them. Why should children miss out on that because they don't want to pray?

  1. My kids did it and they're all atheists now so it doesn't make any difference.

So why have it at all then? Sounds like a monumental waste of time, and if the only justification of it is that it doesn't change people's minds, then it doesn't seem to be doing much for anyone.

  1. We are a Christian country.

Now this, to my mind, gets to the nub of the problem. The CofE, although watered down, wants to cling onto every last bit of power it has, and it won't give up lightly. Schools and children's education is one aspect of that. Not very edifying.

HermioneWeasley · 20/07/2015 07:01

Geeky, it's quite a leap from my post to conclude that I am fearful and suspicious of all Christians or people of any religion.

I am not, but I do intensely dislike anyone who feels they have the right to impose their beliefs on my child. The only possible reason for doing it can be to try to recruit them, and I think that's appalling and I will fight it.

Religion generally and Christianity specifically have very privileged positions in our society, and I think that should be challenged.

Mehitabel6 · 20/07/2015 07:10

I never understand why people think there are secular schools. I don't think they understand 'non denominational' . If a school is not a faith school it is just not a particular denomination, but it is Christian. It is all quite clear in the various education acts which have very precise rules for collective worship in all schools.

It is the law and therefore you have the right to withdraw your child from assembly.

Mehitabel6 · 20/07/2015 07:13

If the church was recruiting children from school assembles they are a spectacular failure! The churches should be full if that were the case!

People have so little faith in their children and don't trust them to think for themselves.
I taught mine to question everything- starting with me. I wouldn't want them to just think the way that I do either.

BertrandRussell · 20/07/2015 07:18

"People have so little faith in their children and don't trust them to think for themselves.
I taught mine to question everything- starting with me. I wouldn't want them to just think the way that I do either"

Yes. Me too.
What has that got to do with me not wanting my children to have to be a nominal Christian in order to take a full part in the life of a non faith tax funded school?

fourtothedozen · 20/07/2015 07:20

Far more dangerous is the fact that schools cultivate sit on the fence type attitudes to christianity. Raising a nation of people who have a casual acceptance to unelected individuals creating laws, to allow systems which promote the ugly parts of christianity_ greed, love of power, bigotry, sexism and don't see a problem with religion being further peddled in schools.

Mehitabel6 · 20/07/2015 07:24

I liked mine to know the alternatives. I wouldn't like them to have have beliefs 'because my mummy says.....or my mummy thinks......'
I much prefer them to know that other people think very differently and then they can say 'I think..... '
Children are not Christian, atheists, Muslim or anything- they are the children of Christians, atheists, Muslims etc until they decide for themselves.

MaggieJoyBlunt · 20/07/2015 07:25

Please OP the word is 'compulsory'. 'Compulsive' means something else.

Honestly, calm down. You have choices as antimatter said. And you can tell your own DC your own take on God, the Universe etc.

We had a problem when our DC were in KS1 that an evangelical christian class teacher was telling the DC some seriously out there stuff as if it were fact. It really could be much worse.

DocHollywood · 20/07/2015 07:26

Love compulsive worship! Grin

Please join us in the national secular society where everyone agrees that there must be an end in sight to this superficial nod to Christianity which is at the whim of the HT and adds nothing to the school day.

Mehitabel6 · 20/07/2015 07:27

A non faith school is non denominational - not secular.
The non denominational schools just filled in the gaps where there were no church schools in 1870. That is why most villages have faith schools.

Mehitabel6 · 20/07/2015 07:28

compulsive worship would be worrying! Grin

Mehitabel6 · 20/07/2015 07:30

People don't join the secular society - I have stopped giving the link. They moan on MN and generally do nothing.

BertrandRussell · 20/07/2015 07:30

"I liked mine to know the alternatives. I wouldn't like them to have have beliefs 'because my mummy says.....or my mummy thinks......'"

Yes of course. So do I.

What has that got to do with me not wanting my children to have to be a nominal Christian in order to take a full part in the life of a non faith tax funded school?

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