Compulsive Worship or discrimination for my children at school...

[recall]

My three children attend a Primary school, it is not a CofE School, or any other type of faith school. They have an assembly once a week and "Open the Book" come and act out plays taken from the Bible. At the end, ask the children to prey. My daughter who is 8 said recently that "God does exist" "God is all around us" I asked her who had told her this, and she said it was the Christians in Assembly. She said she bowed her head when everyone preyed because she did not want to upset anyone.

I have spoken to the Headmaster regarding this, and he said they have to have 15 minutes of Christian worship a week.

I feel this is so wrong, that Christians are proselytising to children as young as four at school where I as their parent am legally bound to ensure that they attend. They are being taught individual's personal beliefs as if it is fact. I see this as a violation of their human rights - its is compulsory worship, they are too young to decide whether this is desirable. I am told that I am able to excuse them from these assemblies, but this is segregation and discrimination. It is heart breaking that children are being segregated from each other due to religion in school, a place of education. Christians are free to proselytise anywhere else, why must they do it in schools? This is dividing the community unnecessarily.

So this is my choice as far as I can see it....either I allow the compulsive worship, or my children are excused/excluded.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can come to terms with this ?

No one is asking them to be a nominal Christian!
You can't force someone to worship.
As a child it would have made it tremendously exciting if my mother got upset about it! Definitely something worth investigating. Instead of which my parents were very laid back and it was quite boring!

They are not missing much if they are out of part of assembly.

There you go again. Nobody is "getting upset". It is perfectly possibly to object to something and think it's wrong without being "upset"

And being removed from something does make it more important than it is. And makes children "different" which most children don't want to be. Why should my children have to be made to be "different" if I don't want them to take part in christian worship in a non faith tax funded school?

I didn't withdraw my children in primary school because they were both the type that would have found it mortifying. So all this "you can withdraw them" stuff is just more I'm all right Jack-ery.

at compulsive worship.

Also its 'pray' not 'prey'. Prey means something entirely different.

I hope you manage to come to terms with this "problem" OP. Wish I had so little to worry about. Just pull them out of assembly if it bothers you that much, children just love to be made to feel different or excluded, don't they? You're obviously not going to tell me what you'll do if your children decide to adopt a Christian faith, get married in church etc.

Punkrockergirl-you really are a charmer, aren't you? Mocking people's use of English, misrepresenting their position, dismissing and belittling legitimate concerns...........

What has that got to do with me not wanting my children to have to be a nominal Christian in order to take a full part in the life of a non faith tax funded school?

I swear I dragged that phrase into my dreams last night I read it so often yesterday. Man alive.

Why should my kids miss out on assembly?

Assembly is an important part of the school community, pupils achievements recognised, farewells and welcomes, presentations, information shared and celebrations.
Why should the onus be on me to remove my kids from this?

All people need to do is go around the playground and start a movement to withdraw children from collective worship and then the ones in it will be the minority.
I think you will find that most people are not bothered- you just get the bothered ones on these threads. I wonder how many of them have joined the secular society and supported them.
These threads have been on MN with regularity since I have been here and nothing changes. There will be another one next month. There are still people who think there are secular schools and then get shocked.

They don't miss all assembly- just the religious part.

Mehitabel6 again a perfect example of your "I'm alright Jack" attitude.

I think it's the cyclic nature of these threads that just hurts my head. I do understand there is therapy in moaning online, I like to do it too, but for those who it really seems to upset I'm just imploring you to actually do something. I imagine there is definitely an appetite to change things, you just have to create a momentum.

I am merely pointing out that moaning on MN gets nowhere- you will have to actively get involved. It needs an act of Parliament to change it. It isn't one of those things I want to get involved in.

These threads have been on MN with regularity since I have been here and nothing changes. There will be another one next month. There are still people who think there are secular schools and then get shocked.

Was there not a national petition at one point?

But that makes a vicious circle, doesn't it? Given the 'all right Jack' comments.

No policy makers are going to believe there is demand until people vote with their feet and exercise their right to opt their DC out.

OK Mehitabel6

Assembly it varies, but roughly_

1. general welcome and prayer
2. Information
3. Song - religious "Jesus is my superhero" or similar.
4. Birthdays, pupils on stage.

5.Academic achievement awards.

1. Parable from bible ( headteacher or frequently local clergy)
2. Powerpoint presentation of class trip
3. Prayer
4. More awards, playground buddies star of the week etc.

10. Religious song 11. Welcome of new teacher. 12. Prayer and finish.

How do you suggest I remove my children from the "religious parts" of assembly, without disrupting proceedings and causing my child no embarrassment? I would have to take my child out 5 or 6 times during the assembly.
You think that is practical?

It bothers me. Religion is a deeply personal thing and in my religion children are not supposed to be forced to believe, this includes telling them that my religion is fact, when it is just my belief, I have no proof.

But the thing is, my child has severe learning disabilities, so when they do a sign language prayer every bloody day, he probably just takes it as fact, he isn't able to question things and it really makes my teeth itch.

But I don't feel I can say anything because there's so many other more important things to keep on top of with the school to do with his health.

Many of the children in that school are Muslim, and I know one other mum is getting annoyed by the whole Christian worship things as well (she isn't Muslim but her husband and son are and she wants that respected quite rightly)

The thing is, if we pull them out of assemblies, then they won't be getting the social experience of them that they really really need. But if we let them go, they're being preached at. It fucks me right off.

Exactly AuntieStella people don't exercise their right. If they did then their child would be an oddity- there would be a mass voting with feet if everyone felt like people on these threads.
There would have to be a new Act of Parliament abolishing collective worship if the majority made it clear they didn't want it.
I can see a massive problem in that a lot of primary schools are church schools and children are there because there is no choice. Villages quite possibly have only church schools in a 20 mile radius.

Well said hurricane.

Having been a supply teacher in lots of schools it is quite easy to take them out. They have religious theme, hymn, prayer first and then the children come in for the rest.
Maybe you have only been to one school where no one goes out, fourtothedozen and then they can spread it out.
I have never had it as a problem. Children are kept out to read etc too so no one is an oddity.

Just to add that if you only want your child to learn fact you ought to remove them from science as well as much of that is theory based on Assumption and data from experiments (scientists tend to avoid using the term proof and rather refer to data which supports or does not support their hypothesis, hence Darwin's theory of evolution is called just that and not the 'facts of evolution'.

"What has that got to do with me not wanting my children to have to be a nominal Christian in order to take a full part in the life of a non faith tax funded school?

I swear I dragged that phrase into my dreams last night I read it so often yesterday. Man alive."

Maybe it would haunt you less if you adressed it? And please stop assuming that because people post on here they do nothing in the real world.

I think you all view it with adult eyes and children are far more accepting- a child not going into assembly isn't seen as strange. There are generally some that don't.

greater- oh please. Science allows you to communicate on mumsnet- you are comparing that to a faith?