Compulsive Worship or discrimination for my children at school...

[recall]

My three children attend a Primary school, it is not a CofE School, or any other type of faith school. They have an assembly once a week and "Open the Book" come and act out plays taken from the Bible. At the end, ask the children to prey. My daughter who is 8 said recently that "God does exist" "God is all around us" I asked her who had told her this, and she said it was the Christians in Assembly. She said she bowed her head when everyone preyed because she did not want to upset anyone.

I have spoken to the Headmaster regarding this, and he said they have to have 15 minutes of Christian worship a week.

I feel this is so wrong, that Christians are proselytising to children as young as four at school where I as their parent am legally bound to ensure that they attend. They are being taught individual's personal beliefs as if it is fact. I see this as a violation of their human rights - its is compulsory worship, they are too young to decide whether this is desirable. I am told that I am able to excuse them from these assemblies, but this is segregation and discrimination. It is heart breaking that children are being segregated from each other due to religion in school, a place of education. Christians are free to proselytise anywhere else, why must they do it in schools? This is dividing the community unnecessarily.

So this is my choice as far as I can see it....either I allow the compulsive worship, or my children are excused/excluded.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can come to terms with this ?

lurked have you tried to contact to the leaders of these other religious establishments about your wish to visit and your concerns about how this might be perceived?

It's just that a lot of what you say as reasons for not visiting them sounds like presumptions that may prove to be groundless.

lurker you've consistently clung to the 'why not just take them out' view.

imagine you, 20 years ago, were the one pakistani muslim child in your school and you survived by keeping your head down, conforming superficially as much as you could, not standing out etc to try to avoid bullying or constant attention being drawn to your 'other' ness.

would you be inclined to be an engaged parent who demands their child be excused from aspects of whole school activity? realistically? when you know it's likely to lead to your child being publicly led out of the room at a key point and made to go off elsewhere?

ime when teaching even the majority of white, working class parents would shrink to the back of the room and avoid eye contact with me on an intake evening. there are many people who feel daunted and humbled somehow in the presence of 'authority' and triggering reminders of their own disempowerment or sense of not measuring up or being bullied etc in education EVEN without adding in racial differences, a history of migration or being visibly different in a monocultural environment etc

in a world fond of catchphrases like community cohesion, celebrating diversity etc it does seem incredibly crazy that we force christian worship into state school. what's the point of fiddly with initiatives when something as fundamental as school assembly still priviliges one group at the expense of all others?

it sounds like fear of being the other for once to me however nicely dressed up as concern for those 'others' who might feel uncomfortable with ones presence.

honey again I'm an atheist too. And nowhere have I mentioned a fear of the effects of being 'othered' on my own behalf, only the likely fear it would cause to others.
In terms of racial cohesion I think dropping compulsory worship would do little good. Because going from how many things are interpreted by the media for the general public chances are lots of those who weren't previously bothered would immediately label it as pandering to the ethnic minorities. (my nearest deprived areas would have many loud voices blaming it on the Muslims). I think it would need to be marketed very clearly as an atheist movement in origin because in the UK at least they don't get the blame for society's ills that many non Christian religions do.

and guess what it IS bloody hard being the other! it's natural to avoid it. there's no avoiding it when it's thrust upon you at school every morning.

I think it would need to be marketed very clearly as an atheist movement in origin

No, it would be secular, wouldn't it? If the assemblies were aimed at those of all faiths and none.

Though the fact that the phrase "militant secularists" has taken hold makes it quite clear that secularists are frequently blamed for all manner of ills in the world, especially by the current government.

and if you simply said no more state funded religious schools or worship in schools then you'd clearly be talking about secularisation and withdrawing funding from all religious schools, not just christian.

surbarban if you lived near the area I'd need to go to attend either a mosque or temple you'd understand entirely why those attending have every fear to suspect a strangers motives. But tbh if you don't believe me that's your look out.
honey you're barking up the wrong tree, dd was an athiest at a church school. A very small minority of athiests at least until y5 when more children began to question it and it became a popular school with none Christians. Its not a church school people attend due to being the only local option or the type people fake religion for on behalf of its reputation. Only other reason people chose it until recently is because either like me they saw something ofsted didn't, or the reputation to support a childs Sen/sn when other local schools had given up or failed

i'm lost as to what tree i'm barking up or what your dd going to a christian school has to do with this.

Lurked, I was the one who originally probed the issue of your child's religious influences. It was on the basis of your statement that you wanted her to make her own mind up about religion. My point was only that there is a level of conscious or unconscious choice editing that goes on when we leave our children to make their own minds up about something. In your case, you didn't feel it would be appropriate to take her to worship at non-Christian services, and your reasons are valid. However, you did choose to take her to church services - which had the implicit message that Christianity is a more natural choice for ' someone like her' than other faiths.

Add to that a school system that promotes Christianity above other religions - including for some the fact that their only choice for state education is a Christian school. And it adds up to a picture where children aren't really making their own minds up - they are funneled towards a small number of choices and you end up with the binary a lot of people have presented on this thread - that it's atheism or Christianity.

I get your point re secularism. I just suspect it would need very clever representation to avoid as being seen as something 'those p bastards have demanded and they don't care about my (previously unmentioned or unpracticed) christianity'. The likes of the mail and those who agree and believe that form of bullshit journalism would love to have it as yet another example of pandering, so if not promoting it as an atheist movement it would need an alternative mail/ fool proof justification so that other religions and cultures don't get the unfounded racial backlash. Atheism was the first that sprang to mind but I'm sure other possibilities exist that even the mail can't twist

honey you asked if I knew how it felt to be the only one.
jassy completely wrong track. To most Caucasians ( and indeed herself) 'someone like her' would appear to be more likely drawn to other religions.
dorrit I'm too polite to mention what your posts contain a lot of.

and your analogy is your dd being an atheist at a christian school? (and we've established they're ALL christian schools).

that's a bit baffling. nearly as baffling as the food analogy. you really do like to trivialise or you really don't 'get' the issues at hand.

It is widely known, isn't it, that there are plenty of secularist Christians? Many Christians have no desire to impose their faith on other people, and do not think that Christianity should have a privileged postion in society.

jassy completely wrong track. To most Caucasians ( and indeed herself) 'someone like her' would appear to be more likely drawn to other religions

I wasn't talking specifically about race, actually. Just that the choices presented as being 'for her' have been edited down.

honey I was responding to why I could empathise with being an athiest at compulsory worship. Although I agree maybe not the best analogy when you consider the bigger emphasis on worship at a school that promotes itself as a church school with very big involvement with the church, compared to what is offered at the average school.
jassy I wasn't particularly referring to race either, technically she's white British despite the illusion and common mistake she's not. I meant more personality, friendships etc.
bertrand if you mean enough to get behind a movement to dispose of compulsory worship, I don't see why not but I couldn't even guess whether there's enough secular ones who want it gone enough to back a campaign. And I don't see loads of Christian leaders willing to find out. Could work in theory though.

jassy I wasn't particularly referring to race either, technically she's white British despite the illusion and common mistake she's not. I meant more personality, friendships etc.

Then why did you mention Caucasians, and put 'appear more likely drawn to other religions' in the same sentence? If you weren't talking about race, why did you mention race?

Regardless, the point I was trying to make stands...

No jassy your point may stand in your head, that dd will be more likely drawn to Christianity, however that's not the case in reality.
bigdorrit you really feel a mail headline like 'christianity banned in schools' would do no harm? I might not have a magic wand to solve it but neither do I think using a stick to stir up shit will be worth a try in the meantime.

You and I might not consider them irrelevant but unfortunately lots do. Bnp etc haven't drummed up support by sticking to the facts. There are countless times I've had to explain to someone who is either stupidly overcrowded or in accommodation wildly unfit, that no, those money grabbing immigrants haven't 'stole' or 'taken' your ha house, even if they were given it when by rights you were first, it's not their fault, it's the housing policy, blame them if anyone. Or no the community centre isn't closing to fund a mosque instead, the council are closing the community centre and the mosque is being funded from private donations from local Muslims. No, your dla hasn't been refused so we can fund thieving Romanians, it's been refused because some moron can't total up your points correctly. And I think any possibility of pc gone mad or other religions/ cultures being 'blamed' needs to be avoided. Hence so far I think getting Christians as the driving force or at least publicly seen as such is the way that would reasonably avoid the logic behind it being twisted.

Relevant not irrelevant

Lurked- please don't tell me you work in a capacity where you are having to give people advice....