Compulsive Worship or discrimination for my children at school...

[recall]

My three children attend a Primary school, it is not a CofE School, or any other type of faith school. They have an assembly once a week and "Open the Book" come and act out plays taken from the Bible. At the end, ask the children to prey. My daughter who is 8 said recently that "God does exist" "God is all around us" I asked her who had told her this, and she said it was the Christians in Assembly. She said she bowed her head when everyone preyed because she did not want to upset anyone.

I have spoken to the Headmaster regarding this, and he said they have to have 15 minutes of Christian worship a week.

I feel this is so wrong, that Christians are proselytising to children as young as four at school where I as their parent am legally bound to ensure that they attend. They are being taught individual's personal beliefs as if it is fact. I see this as a violation of their human rights - its is compulsory worship, they are too young to decide whether this is desirable. I am told that I am able to excuse them from these assemblies, but this is segregation and discrimination. It is heart breaking that children are being segregated from each other due to religion in school, a place of education. Christians are free to proselytise anywhere else, why must they do it in schools? This is dividing the community unnecessarily.

So this is my choice as far as I can see it....either I allow the compulsive worship, or my children are excused/excluded.

Does anyone have any advice on how I can come to terms with this ?

genius!

antimatter I find your response extremely insensitive and rather arrogant.
How flippant to point out that I can simply home educate my children as a solution to this dilemma. You must feel very clever, you come across as very smug.

'Trying to throw Islamic prayer into this discussion'

The poster used the example to highlight the hypocrisy of those pooh-poohing concerns about compulsory religious practices. And it did beautifully.

So when your dd makes statements, op, about how god does exist, do you not counter it with the " well, that's what some people believe" line?
Surely that's your chance to get an alternative viewpoint across so your dd can make her own mind up.

I explained my experience and that of my family. You may not like what I said but the bottom line is that you really have choice.

If you come on a public forum you'll see people coming up with various solution to your questions.

Peace and love.
And god luck!

*good

So if your children were required to pray to Allah and sing about Allah regularly during school time you'd be happy because you'd be able to opt them out. I know it's not likely to happen but it's a thought exercise.

I've seen one school nicely side step this by having Quaker assemblies, which basically means a few mins of silence. OP would you be happy for something like that?

I find it really bizarre that prayer is compulsory in schools and is one of the reasons I teach in FE.

insacerr yes we do explain it, but that was just one line of fundamentalism that happened filter through to me. I have three children at the school, how much of it doesn't get back to me, but remains forced into their minds ?

I was discussing this with a fellow parent yesterday, and they said that their litte boy had come home from school and said " I want to die" when questioned regarding this, he said "because Heaven is such a nice place - I want to go and live there"

We as parents are having to repair the damage done by these loons. I just can't get past - why in schools ?

Why in schools ?

Why in schools ?

Sasch from what I've read, I think it has to be "of a broadly Chistian nature"

Thanks for the suggestion though, I want as many ideas as possible. I'm meeting one of the Governors and the new Headmistress in September in an attempt to try and sort something. Want to be armed with solutions.

The 1944 Education Act requires every state school to provide a daily act of worship that is broadly Christian in character. The vast majority of schools do not do this and are thus in breach of the law. This is ignored by OFSTED.

In practice if the aim of your visit into school recall is to prevent any assembly with a religious character from taking place then you will not succeed as the school would have to admit that it is breaking the law. If you want the law to be changed on the daily act of worship in schools then I think the National Secular society is running a campaign which you might like to join.

However much you might want to drive all religion out of schools what you can actually do is check that the people who are doing the 'Open the Book' sessions are abiding by the code of practice which is here:

^All storytellers agree to...
• stick to the script and present the story simply, without addition or improvisation following the guidelines in the Open the Book Handbook
• allow each story to speak for itself, as a Bible story, not as a sermon
• liaise closely and sensitively with schools, and be mindful of the educational environment
• make minimal demands on schools and be aware of being invited visitors
• show respect and sensitivity to those of other faiths, and to those with none
• fulfil the relevant safeguarding requirements.

Volunteer storytellers should be accompanied by members of staff during all storytelling sessions.^

The (infant) school I go into as a minister does not have any daily of act of worship. About once a month either I or one of the Methodist ministers go in and do an assembly. From what I've seen of her work she does the same as me -tells a Bible story without comment and says a simple prayer at the end which the children make their own if they want to. There are no hymns or worship songs sung at that school. I've helped out with 'Open the Book' at another school and it is exactly as the code of practice sets out which is tell the story without comment. I'm sure there are some groups who are ignoring the code of practice and that would be grounds for complaint.

It's part of our culture and tradition.

Culture and tradition is the standard fall back position when you can't find any logic or reason for doing what you've always done.

Slavery used to be part of our culture and tradition. Some communities still practice FGM due to culture and tradition. Eventually enough people have to stand up and say "bollocks to culture and tradition, this is just plain wrong."

Although many schools do adopt the "refection " attitude, many don't.
The problem is that headteachers are given a free remit to deliver as much or as little indoctrination as they like.
Our primary school ( state non-denominational) had a very religious headteacher. The whole of the school day was punctuated by indoctrination, bible stories, prayers, even casual remarks like " oh look it's sunny, isn't Jesus wonderful".
It would have been impossible to remove my kids from the religious aspect of school, the whole week was peppered with a christian slant.
The head wasn't interested in even discussing it ( and I was a school governor). His view was that he had the remit to deliver religion in law and was adhering to it as he saw fit. And he had a point.
But we shouldn't be at the vagaries of individual head teachers personal views on religion.
I take big issue with the law.

I would assume Muslim schools already pray to Allah and face Mecca so I'm not sure why the Islam example is being given outside of an Islamic school.

We know religious schools exist alongside Christian ones. We also know that this is still considered a Christian country and so there are some Christian traditions that are still enshrined in law. One is a small amount of compulsory worship.

You have the ability to opt out of this by contacting the school and making your wishes known, but you don't like that idea I gather as you think it marks your children apart. I assume you also don't like the idea of moving to a secular country or home schooling. Fair enough.

I think all you can do is make your dissatisfaction known and teach your children about religion at home. They grow up so quickly and will make up their own minds soon enough. Honestly I think you are being a little hysterical about something that could be tackled very easily through conversation.

Do you celebrate Christmas or Easter btw?

Sebsmummy, you've entirely missed the point about the reference to Islamic worship.

The school in question isn't Muslim or Christian, it's a secular school. But despite this, the law says they must have 15 mins of Christian worship.

Some of the Christians posted to say it makes no difference to the child, and the child will not be influenced by this Christian worship, and will make up their own minds. So I asked, if that was true, then they should no objection to their kids being exposed to 15 mins daily Islamic worship, as it makes no difference.

But of course they'd have an objection, as they wouldn't want their kids being exposed to beliefs and worship that were alien to them, in the same way as the OP doesn't want her kids exposed to Christian worship, that is alien to her.

sebsmummy= Do you celebrate Christmas or Easter btw?

Interesting question. I assume you celebrate these pagan festivals?

TTWK unfortunately we don't have many secular schools in the Uk. The most we can hope for without having to pay is non denominational.

TTWK don't worry I got the point, I happen to think it's moot. This is a Christian country that follows laws that are indoctrinated in Christian values (whether you agree or not). We are (currently) not an Islamic country, so outside of a specifically Muslim school we would not be praying to Allah.

The school does not adhere to any one particular religion specifically but is governed under English law. Therefore it is considered a Christian school and has some Christian religious worship.

There may be a time when all this changes and if the OP feels strongly enough then I'm sure there are all sorts of things she can do to make a thorough pest of herself and potentially change the law in this regard.

Personally I am not upset by my child bowing his head to respect Christianity or taking his shoes off or covering their head to respect Islam. The queen expects a certain amount of reverence too and people will bow or curtesy in her presence. It's a show of respect, not a pledge of allegiance.

I've said it before I'll say it again.

Withdraw them and their friends will follow. Our "withdrawn" group is up to 15 now and growing. Made up of Atheists, JW, Muslims and other religions. They love it! They get 15 mins free play in the playground whilst their friends gawp out of the window at them

I don't think Christans realise how frustrating it is to be told that our children being obliged to take part in Christian worship in non faith state schools is "no biggie". It's usually followed by something along the lines of "why can't we just live and let live?" Well, it's easy to say that when it's your version of life we're living!

My DC didn't care one jot about being the odd ones out. Honestly their friends will just be jealous they don't get to miss out.

It's so fucking ludicrous in this day and age. Honestly most people don't even believe you when you tell them it's the law. Forced worship for kids under the umbrella of one religion. Not exactly inclusive!

There's no such thing as a 'secular school' in the UK. It would be nice, but you can't have one. It's been tried.

www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/23/schools.faithschools

All schools are obliged to offer the 'broadly Christian worship' - although in practice it largely depends on the whims of the Head, the governors, & any turbulent priests in the local community sticking their oar in...

I don't think Christans realise how frustrating it is to be told that our children being obliged to take part in Christian worship in non faith state schools is "no biggie". It's usually followed by something along the lines of "why can't we just live and let live?" Well, it's easy to say that when it's your version of life we're living!

Exactly. Otherwise known as "I'm alright Jack".

^ agree