women wearing burqa, this riles me

[southeastastra]

i am sorry to be saying this as i know we should all be equal and embrace diversity but when i see women dressed in this it raises my hackles and i want to get out and rant at them. i can't just think it's okay in the western world.

am i allowed this view on mn?

Indeed and we can say what we like - about our own view on the Koran and when people mis-interpret it and the impact on women and equalities when women cover up. That is the beauty of free speech in the UK which sadly many countries abroad do not allow.

When have you been approached by a muslim telling you what to wear?

It's largely irrelevant, but in point of fact I have, on a London street (sleeveless maxi dress) as have others.

I can't help feelig these discussions would get further if the kumbaya tendencies could be set aside.

There have been unpleasant incidences of muslim men trying to bully non-muslim women re dress just as much as there have been unpleasant incidences of bigots harrassing veiled women. Surely that is well known?

There are always idiots on any side of any debate. Really irritating to not be able to address issues properly.

Well to be honest fideline I think it had reached that point earlier on, with both sides not having views changed as such, but having more understanding of each point of view. For some reason the Captain-save-a-Muslim gang returned and decided it was time to start the discussion again by repeating the same points that had been mentioned and debated earlier on in the 450-odd posts.

To be honest, I haven't read the whole thing properly in one sitting, so i'd got a more intermittent impression. Maybe another outbreak of good sense will be along soon

I doubt that there will be, fideline. I suspect that it will all be very one-sided from now as everyone in support of Muslim women has simply given up. We have realised that there is absolutely no point in debating this type of issue with "western feminists" as what they say is right and that is that. I was given hope earlier on when posters such as garlic admitted that they had learned something, although still not understanding fully, and I appreciated them eventually putting forward their points without being obtuse or trying to "save" anybody.

This will be my last post on this thread now, as it had exhausted me. However, if anyone would like answers to questions such as:

• "Why don't Muslim men have to cover?"
• "Why are Muslim women forced into covering?"
• or "Why don't Muslim women who claim that they are choosing to cover realise that they are submitting to their society's patriarchal values?"

may I politely suggest that you read this thread. It has been interesting and insightful for all parities, and I genuinely believe that those wanting to save Muslim women from the terrible oppression that they simply must experience can learn a lot from this thread.
If you haven't got the time or energy to read the entire thread (and I wouldn't blame you, it's bloody long and very heavy), a good post to read would be peacefuloptimist's post on Fri 11-Apr-14 17:18:33, where she quotes what I believe to be a blog post from crescentmoon.

As much as I disagree with the wearing of burqas/niqab in Europe, I do believe the women wearing them do so mostly of their own free will. They often grew up seeing their relatives and friends wearing them and they would feel inappropriate if they didn't follow suit. The few who are forced will end up running away because they are coerced into a way of life they don't believe in.
Again, not my cup of tea at all, but most of it is religious/cultural and pretty harmless. I do think that where the face is covered though, the UK needs to be decisive and legislate accordingly as it goes against our system of values.

Errol - I find your statement wrong on so many levels.
Do you honestly believe that?

Why not? I read an article a few years ago where they'd talked to some girls and that was basically it - they wanted to dress like Mummy and the other grown-up ladies they knew. Have you never seen Western-clad women with mini-me daughters?

Obviously this is unlikely to be the only explanation for all cases - but tethers was looking for any explanations and this is one I've come across.

"When have you been approached by a muslim telling you what to wear?" (Yes, although not in the street. I have been sent lists of clothing requirements. I was even given a parcel of clothes to change into as soon as I touched down in one Islamic country - absolutely awful and sexist to the core).