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Original poster

God's influence

329 replies

orangatan · 18/03/2014 09:12

Have nc for this but only becuase I am busy as it were on other threads.

I am having trouble getting my head around something.

I am a committed christian.

When things go wrong, and I am really just talking about very minor things that other people have done to you, how much of that has been orchestrated by God?
Any of it? None of it? Somewhere in between?

Thanks

OP posts:
bluepen · 21/03/2014 10:47

I must admit that I never thought much about how we help God overcome evil Blush

capsium · 21/03/2014 10:48

Well everybody is learning. Smile I expect there are a fair few things I need to learn too! Grin

capsium · 21/03/2014 10:49

But really because of God's Grace I think of it as God working through us, He does all the hard work.

bluepen · 21/03/2014 10:49

We will never finish learning.

bluepen · 21/03/2014 10:50

True capsium.

BackOnlyBriefly · 21/03/2014 12:42

God let Satan test Job because He knew Job would succeed and then He blessed him.

Shame about all those who suffered and died so that the test could go through. I don't know how anyone can read Job and not be disgusted by the very idea.

All his servants were killed (but, hey, servants don't matter)

Then all his children were crushed to death.

So if you love god and you have children you should be happy to see your own children crushed to death so he can make a point. I doubt anyone here really thinks like that. So I wonder how you reconcile it.

capsium · 21/03/2014 13:01

What I said was the message I took from the account.

This does not negate the horrible things that happened, due to Satan. These horrible things could happen to anyone. God can help us through it though.

The account of Job is a very difficult one. People in the OT lead very difficult lives. As someone living now, the Old Testament accounts are brutal and difficult to reconcile.

Redemption through Christ was also not available in Old Testament times. It was not as easy to be close to God for everyone. As a Christian, I tend to focus on what Christ did for us and His love.

bluepen · 21/03/2014 13:02

He made us. He can destroy us. His choice.

headinhands · 21/03/2014 13:04

So god doesn't follow his own code?

bluepen · 21/03/2014 13:07

He doesnt have to follow a code.
Because He is GOD.

He is slow to anger.

He can do whatever He likes!

headinhands · 21/03/2014 13:07

Job came through?? Didn't his entire family get wiped out? But it's okay because, hey ho, he was married with shiney new kids a couple of years later.

Blupen would you kill your kids if god told you to?

bluepen · 21/03/2014 13:08

The code is for us, not for Him.

headinhands · 21/03/2014 13:09

So you became a Christian because you saw the message as good? So god expected you to recognise good when you see it. But god can be bad? Do you love god? Why?

bluepen · 21/03/2014 13:13

I knew that God was right.
I knew that God was supreme.

headinhands · 21/03/2014 13:23

So even before you had the Holy Spirit in you you were able to use your own human sense of morality to decide god was right. What does right mean?

bluepen · 21/03/2014 15:39

I am not going into what right means. See bible.

Before I was a christian people were praying for me and God was pushing the issue.

atthestrokeoftwelve · 21/03/2014 16:16

Yeah because the bible is full of really good and right things;

"I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers. Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin. There are no survivors to even tell what happened. I thought, 'Surely they will have reverence for me now! "

"You Ethiopians will also be slaughtered by my sword," says the LORD. And the LORD will strike the lands of the north with his fist."

On that day of judgment," says the LORD, "I will punish the leaders and princes of Judah and all those following pagan customs. Yes, I will punish those who participate in pagan worship ceremonies"

"Because you have sinned against the LORD, I will make you as helpless as a blind man searching for a path. Your blood will be poured out into the dust, and your bodies will lie there rotting on the ground."

"LORD's anger. For the whole land will be devoured by the fire of his jealousy. He will make a terrifying end of all the people on earth. "

Yup - all nice and good.

BackOnlyBriefly · 21/03/2014 16:43

Well, bluepen, your answer is straightforward at least, but let me be quite sure I have this right. If god were standing in front of you slowly killing a child you would not disapprove?

capsium seems to me you are avoiding it by saying 'due to Satan'. You read the same thing we did. God not only allowed Satan to do it, but he encouraged him.

So same question as to bluepen. Would you be ok with god killing a child in front of you just to make a point.

capsium · 21/03/2014 16:48

Back God would not test me more than I am able to bear. He knows me. So I have to have Faith I would not be put in that position.

BackOnlyBriefly · 21/03/2014 17:01

capsium so you are saying you trust him to wait until you are not looking before he murders a child?

That's not really addressing the point is it. If you knew (no matter how) that god was killing a child for no reason other to to make a point then would you say "that's fine, you have the right because you are god".

bluepen · 21/03/2014 17:04

My answer is slightly different to capsium's.

I trust God. God is God. I am nowhere near important enough to feel I am able to question Him.

headinhands · 21/03/2014 17:05

What about numerous Christians who commit suicide? They couldn't cope with what they were feeling. Why would god go any easier on you?

bluepen · 21/03/2014 17:06

Do numerous christians commit suicide?
I dont personally or any other way know any at all.

Do you know some?

headinhands · 21/03/2014 17:08

But blue you obviously did question him at some point or you wouldn't be a Christian would you? Are you saying god wants and expects you to use your own sense of right and wrong to initially recognise him as good, but then demands you switch that 'moral alarm system' off from that point onwards? Shock

headinhands · 21/03/2014 17:14

Statistics show that suicide occurs in the Christian population as much as the non-Christian.