Christian Bible Study

[HoneyandRum]

Welcome everyone to Christian Bible Study week 1. For convenience we are using the Lectionary Gospel reading for each Sunday. Our reading this week is Luke 2:22-40. For anyone without a bible here is the reading, (quite long):

"And when the day came for them to be purified in keeping with the Law of Moses, they took him up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord - observing what is written in the Law of the Lord: Every first-born male must be consecrated to the Lord - and also to offer in sacrifice, in accordance with what is prescribed in the Law of the Lord, a pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons. Now in Jerusalem there was a man named Simeon. He was an upright and devout man; he looked forward to the restoration of Israel and the Holy Spirit rested on him. It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death until he had set eyes on the Christ of the Lord. Prompted by the Spirit he came to the Temple; and when the parents brought in the child Jesus to do for him what the Law required, he took him into his arms and blessed God; and he said:

Now, Master, you are letting your servant go in peace as you promised;
for my eyes have seen the salvation
which you have made ready in the sight of the nations;
a light of revelation for the gentiles and glory for your people Israel.

As the child's father and mother were wondering at the things that were being said about him, Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, 'Look, he is destined to be a sign that is opposed - and a sword will pierce your soul too - so that the secret thoughts of many may be laid bare.'

There was a prophetess, too, Anna the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was well on in years. Her days of girlhood over, she had been married for seven years before becoming a widow. She was now eighty-four years old and never left the Temple, serving God night and day with fasting and prayer. She came up just at that moment and began to praise God; and she spoke of the child to all who looked forward to the deliverance of Jerusalem.

When they had done everything the Law of the Lord required, they went back to Gaililee, to their own town of Nazareth. And as the child grew to maturity, he was filled with wisdom; and God's favour was with him."

(This quote is from The New Jerusalem Bible, a Catholic translation widely used in English speaking countries. If you have a different translation you would like to post please do, with details of the translation you are using.)

To fellow Christians: This is a place of fellowship, encouragement, gentleness and understanding as sisters and brothers in Christ. To help each other grow in faith, understanding of the scriptures and of each other's faith traditions in a respectful and loving manner.

Please share your reflections, inspirations, thoughts, questions, musings and findings from study here.

Shout out to those who dropped by showing interest in a Bible Study:
niminypiminy, wolfiefan, Dogonabeanbag, StressedHEmum, minniemagoo, lostblonde86, thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts, madhairday, thanksamillion, Loobingler, Tuo, Gingerdodger, ZingSweetApple, Cloutiedumpling, Gingercurl and AMumInScotland !

Have loved hearing people's thoughts on this and don't really have much to contribute except it seems to really illustrate Jesus as being fully human and fully divine as both really shine through in this passage.

We had a sermon on this passage on Sunday that made me think about it in a new light. The preacher pointed out how many people there are in this scene all the apostles, Mary, Martha, people from their family and community, a crowd of 'Jews' (in John this often means Pharisees, doesn't it, or temple officials). It made me realise that I picture this scene with only Jesus and Lazarus in it, as if in that moment there's only the two of them there. But in fact, there is a large crowd watching. The preacher said that this crowd of witnesses is like the church (not the CofE, or any particular church, but the big body-of-Christ church), and that that is what the church should be a crowd of witnesses.

I really liked this, and thought I would share it.

Yes niminy, that is good.

I think all too often people can get bogged down in divisions, yet we are all individuals who may undergo different thought processes to reach understanding. I think important thing is witnessing Christ, growing in understanding of Him and what He means for us.

This week's reading -- a short one this time.

Matthew 21.1-11

When they had come near Jerusalem and had reached Bethphage, at the Mount of Olives, Jesus sent two disciples, saying to them, ‘Go into the village ahead of you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to me. If anyone says anything to you, just say this, “The Lord needs them.” And he will send them immediately.’ This took place to fulfil what had been spoken through the prophet, saying,
‘Tell the daughter of Zion,
Look, your king is coming to you,
humble, and mounted on a donkey,
and on a colt, the foal of a donkey.’
The disciples went and did as Jesus had directed them; they brought the donkey and the colt, and put their cloaks on them, and he sat on them. A very large crowd spread their cloaks on the road, and others cut branches from the trees and spread them on the road. The crowds that went ahead of him and that followed were shouting,
‘Hosanna to the Son of David!
Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!
Hosanna in the highest heaven!’
When he entered Jerusalem, the whole city was in turmoil, asking, ‘Who is this?’ The crowds were saying, ‘This is the prophet Jesus from Nazareth in Galilee.’

Hi! I missed last week, we're on holiday so routines upended, but I wanted to comment on Lazarus story. I'm always struck by the very earthly concerns of the ever-practical Mary. She's worried about the effect the stench of a decomposing body will have on Jesus and the rest of the crowd. You have to love her.

I'll kick off on this week's Bible passage too. My first, rather obvious thought, is Jesus' total authority, there is no question that the disciples will do exactly as He requests, that the donkey & colt will be there and that they will be released for duty.

Why a donkey? Why not a horse or some other form of transport more worthy and suitable for a king? Oh i love Jesus. The older i get in my spiritual walk, the more questions i have. The reaction of the crowds surprises me. Jesus did not make a huge announcement. He enters the city on a donkey!! They start giving Him praise right away and i love that they pave the way with branches to make a red carpet for Jesus. So although He is sitting on a donkey, they acknowledge Him as King.

I am rumbling now from lack of sleep:)

Hi Blessed and everyone. I love how the donkey shows Jesus' humility too. I think the crowds still are guessing about exactly who Jesus is at this stage though, asking who he is and describing him as a 'prophet', when Jesus is so much more...

Hello to you too caps. Yes! That is it. Humility. I could not find that word in my head. The donkey shows that he is willing to humble himself. Think about that! Oh Jesus, How i love thee! And how i yearn to be more like you, but alas it is not happening. I am more like me:)

Jesus entering Jerusalem on a donkey points back to the passage from Zechariah 9:

9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter Zion!
Shout aloud, O daughter Jerusalem!
Lo, your king comes to you;
triumphant and victorious is he,
humble and riding on a donkey,
on a colt, the foal of a donkey.

And if you look at the next verse you can see why the crowd were so excited:

10 He[c] will cut off the chariot from Ephraim
and the warhorse from Jerusalem;
and the battle-bow shall be cut off,
and he shall command peace to the nations;
his dominion shall be from sea to sea,
and from the River to the ends of the earth.

The crowd were waiting for a leader, a messiah who would lead the rebellion against the Roman occupiers. Jesus isn't this sort of king but the crowd, the religious leaders and the Roman authorities don't know this.

I love that greenheart. Last Lent I read NT Wright's Lent book on Luke, and the thing I took very strongly from that was the extent to which Jesus fulfils the prophecies about the Messiah, but in a totally unexpected way.

Thinking about this passage, it's the mixture of humility and majesty that others have remarked on that stands out, but also the awful juxtaposition of the Triumphal Entry with our knowledge of what's to come - which Jesus himself must have known -, the knowledge that the same crowd would turn on him so soon, and that 'Hosanna in the highest heaven' would turn into 'Crucify him! Crucify him!'. And yet that knowledge too is tempered by the fact that we also know that he is 'triumphant and victorious' (as Zechariah has it) not over the Romans, but over death and sin. Good Friday follows Palm Sunday, but Easter Sunday follows (and 'trumps' as it were) both.

The other thing that I am struck by is the way in which these key moments in the story of Jesus are enshrined in the liturgy. I don't think we always think about this story (or, at least, I don't) when we say or sing the Benedictus, but it strikes me that we probably should, since the liturgy of the Eucharist mirrors that same cycle from Palm Sunday to Good Friday to Easter Sunday as it goes from 'Blessed is he who comes...' to the words of Jesus to his disciples at the Last Supper to his sharing of himself with us and for us: 'Lord I am not worthy to receive you; but only say the word and I shall be healed'.

Tuo, when that ('Lord I am not worthy ... I shall be healed') comes up in the liturgy I always find myself with a lump in my throat and my voice goes funny.

I was thinking about this passage and Jesus's triumphal entry into Jerusalem in contrast to stars on the red carpet in our own time. We put out red carpet for those we honour and admire, to signify how special and far above us they are, so that they don't have to walk on the mere pavement like the rest of us -- the crowds who line up to see them, or watch on tv or on the internet. And there they are, icons of youth and beauty and (sometimes) talent, with their natural attractions enhanced by all that money can do in the way of clothes and cosmetics, and with the glamour of fame shining from them.

Jesus's disciples and the crowds make for him a kind of red carpet, out of their cloaks and branches cut from trees. It's the best they have, but it's nothing like a red carpet. Old, ragged cloaks of homespun, undyed or browny-coloured wool or linen, patched and worn, dirty with the dust of travel; probably the only cloak most of them have. And because there aren't enough cloaks to cover the road, they cut branches from the trees and lay those on the ground. This is a raggle-taggle crowd of the poor, the dispossessed, the hungry, those with nothing but the clothes they stand up in, the people at the sharp end. It isn't the great and good, those dressed in fine silks and bright colours, but those who give the only thing they have for Jesus to walk on.

And Jesus himself is so far from the idols of celebrity on our red carpet. Riding not on a horse, like a king, but a donkey, like a peasant. An ordinary man, thin, wearing worn robes of a rabbi, tired with constant travelling and preaching, with the shadow in his eyes of terrible things to come. He isn't glamorous or beautiful, dressed in fine clothes and the trappings of power. Yet there is something about him that gives the crowd the thing that they most need and want: hope. In this moment, they call him their king, their saviour, their blessing. In a few short days they will turn against him.

And: would I have been in the crowd, shouting 'Hosanna in the highest heaven'? I hope so. Would I have been in the crowd, shouting 'crucify him'? I know so .

niminy - reaching for the non-existent 'like' button!

On Palm Sunday, as well as the Palm Sunday gospel, we have a semi-dramatised reading of the whole story of the Passion (this year was from Mark - not sure if it's always Mark or if it rotates), with the congregation in the role of the crowd. It's so hard to join in with 'Crucify him!' and with the mockery... but precisely because I know how easy it'd have been had I been there at the time. Painful, but important.

We do that too (this year from Matthew). I was reading as Peter -- stupid, puppyish, always getting the wrong end of the stick, over-enthusiastic, cowardly Peter. The words 'I do not know the man' seemed to echo for ages in the church after I read them ... but perhaps that was just in my head. Everybody shouting together 'crucify him' is very powerful; also we decided that everybody should join in as Judas, which was painful but important, too.

niminy about Jesus not dressed in fine clothes, why did the soldiers cast lots on his clothes, or was it his coat they cast lots on? Muses on Jesus being beautiful[ misses the whole point of the post]

Blessed it's because clothes were so incredibly precious then, when all cloth had to be woven by hand. Did you know that people used to leave their relatives and servants their clothes in their will, because clothes were so valuable. Most poor people had only one set of clothes. When in the Bible it talks about clothes being worn out by moths it means something very valuable being ruined. So the soldiers cast lots for his clothes because they could sell them or use the material.

Ohh,what an eye opener niminy. Thank you and no i did not know all that about clothes being so out of reach. I thought there must have been something special about his clothes that is why they cast lots for them. We are forever learning, thanks a lot.

Shouldn't we be on a new passage by now (I'm on holiday & may have lost track, if so sorry)?

That's correct cheapskate. I am functioning on less than 5hrs sleep a night so can not be trusted with anything right now. I am sure niminy will throw us a fab verse soon.

You called ? Next Sunday's gospel is the resurrection (hurrah!) but it didn't seem quite right putting that up in Holy Week, so here is the end of the Passion gospel from last Sunday. I will put up the resurrection gospel on Saturday evening -- so we can have the new verses when we begin to celebrate our risen Lord. Does that seem ok?

It's another long one...

Matthew 27.27-66

Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the governor’s headquarters, and they gathered the whole cohort around him. They stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him, and after twisting some thorns into a crown, they put it on his head. They put a reed in his right hand and knelt before him and mocked him, saying, ‘Hail, King of the Jews!’ They spat on him, and took the reed and struck him on the head. After mocking him, they stripped him of the robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him away to crucify him.

As they went out, they came upon a man from Cyrene named Simon; they compelled this man to carry his cross. And when they came to a place called Golgotha (which means Place of a Skull), they offered him wine to drink, mixed with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it. And when they had crucified him, they divided his clothes among themselves by casting lots; then they sat down there and kept watch over him. Over his head they put the charge against him, which read, ‘This is Jesus, the King of the Jews.’

Then two bandits were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. Those who passed by derided him, shaking their heads and saying, ‘You who would destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! If you are the Son of God, come down from the cross.’ In the same way the chief priests also, along with the scribes and elders, were mocking him, saying, ‘He saved others; he cannot save himself. He is the King of Israel; let him come down from the cross now, and we will believe in him. He trusts in God; let God deliver him now, if he wants to; for he said, “I am God’s Son.” ’ The bandits who were crucified with him also taunted him in the same way.

From noon on, darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon. And about three o’clock Jesus cried with a loud voice, ‘Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?’ that is, ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’ When some of the bystanders heard it, they said, ‘This man is calling for Elijah.’ At once one of them ran and got a sponge, filled it with sour wine, put it on a stick, and gave it to him to drink. But the others said, ‘Wait, let us see whether Elijah will come to save him.’ Then Jesus cried again with a loud voice and breathed his last. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, and the rocks were split. The tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised. After his resurrection they came out of the tombs and entered the holy city and appeared to many. Now when the centurion and those with him, who were keeping watch over Jesus, saw the earthquake and what took place, they were terrified and said, ‘Truly this man was God’s Son!’

Many women were also there, looking on from a distance; they had followed Jesus from Galilee and had provided for him. Among them were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.

When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who was also a disciple of Jesus. He went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus; then Pilate ordered it to be given to him. So Joseph took the body and wrapped it in a clean linen cloth and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn in the rock. He then rolled a great stone to the door of the tomb and went away. Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were there, sitting opposite the tomb.

The next day, that is, after the day of Preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered before Pilate and said, ‘Sir, we remember what that impostor said while he was still alive, “After three days I will rise again.” Therefore command that the tomb be made secure until the third day; otherwise his disciples may go and steal him away, and tell the people, “He has been raised from the dead”, and the last deception would be worse than the first.’ Pilate said to them, ‘You have a guard of soldiers; go, make it as secure as you can.’ So they went with the guard and made the tomb secure by sealing the stone.

This passage overwhelms me. The bit I find especially haunting is when Jesus says, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'

It is when Jesus says this, I find especially difficult to read.

What does this mean? Did God have to forsake Jesus so that Jesus could die? And then what is the significance of the sour wine? Is it symbolic of the death of Jesus?

It's a quotation from the opening of Psalm 22:
'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from helping me, from the words of my groaning?

In his death Jesus touches the limits of desolation -- he goes to a place so many of us have been, where God seems to have abandoned us to suffering. It is hard to read, but it is one of the things I hold on to, that Jesus suffers with us, he is with us in our pain and sorrow and grief, because he went to that place before us, and for our sake.

Sour wine, or vinegar and water, was a common drink -- so someone is offering him a sponge to suck, to ease his thirst, but then withdraws it with a taunt. They nearly show him compassion, but then take it away again.

Thank you niminy. I agree, you can hold onto Jesus having suffered for us and that He really knows our suffering. The desolation is still really difficult though.

I agree with both niminy and capsium: it's hard to read, but it's also encouraging because it shows Jesus's humanity and reminds us that his death on the Cross is not something we can somehow 'make light of' because he's really God and therefore somehow doesn't really die. He does really suffer and die. He feels real pain and real fear like us. (I always think of this in the same context as when he prays in Gethsemane: 'If it be possible, let this cup pass from me'.) And, as niminy says, he knows what it means to feel that God has abandoned him. And yet he is still obedient ('Yet not as I will, but as You will...' or as Philippians has it 'he became obedient unto death - even the death of the Cross'). In this context, I'm also struck by the dramatic irony in: 'He saved others; he cannot save himself'. Because he came to save others, he cannot - must not - save himself.