YEC 2

[Januarymadness]

Right I am going to bite. I shouldnt have looked at the facebook but I did.

Mr Ruggles you have made some horrible accusations. You have claimed everyone who disagreed with you was an atheist who lacked logic and reasoning. You were wrong on ALL counts. Many people told you they were Christian or Theists, they just didn't agree with you. The thread was also full of valid scientific arguments which were well worded and full of logic and reasoning.

You have also accused us all of being bullies. Something I saw no evidence of. Not agreeing with someone is not bullying.

So please do feel free to justify your off board comments here as speaking behind peoples backs is really not on.

Please could someone link to the old thread. Thanks

still not getting the genetics and disinheritence thang

I'm actually not really getting the water wine and honey thing either. It's three things mixed up / dissolved? Were they three different things to start with? How does that tell us anything about the nature of god? Can you take it the metaphor step further?

infamouspoo and LizzyDay Do you know anything about Theory of Mind with regard to 'scaffolding'? Basically it describes the somewhat hierarchical nature of knowledge. Concepts will be difficult to understand without the correct foundation to build upon.

Now in Christianity that foundation is Christ. I could probably try to explain things again to you but my explanations don't compare with the personal revelation you can get from the Holy Ghost (because He knows you.) Now earlier on in the thread I explained how you could get revelation from the Holy Ghost...

There's a Holy Ghost too? Christian theology is beyond me its so convoluted.

infamouspoo the Holy Ghost is also referred to as the Holy Spirit and the Comforter.

infamouspoo you can think of God as - in Heaven, Jesus - who lived as a man on earth & now in Heaven and the Holy Spirit /Ghost/Comforter as - God's spirit on earth (and in people who want Him).

that should be Jesus - God who lived as a man on earth...

Jewcy I don't care about Tertullian. Do you think it is right to say "This man has committed a crime. Let's whip his kids"

Now earlier on in the thread I explained how you could get revelation from the Holy Ghost...

I asked for it, but it didn't come

BackOnlyBriefly The point is the fathers and sons were only punished / individually blamed for their own transgressions.

However since sin corrupts / degrades the nature of man this degradation can be inherited, like giving someone a propensity / vulnerability / inherent weakness with regard to that sin. Think about in how in medicine Doctors often ask for family history it's the same kind of idea.

Pedro be patient and have faith, it will come, continue to seek God with an open heart and mind.

what intrigued me the other day about christianity, was some quote from Matthew where Yeshua says something along the lines that he didnt come to change the law ond it remains in place until the end of time, yet Christians ignore all of Torah law except the bits they cherry pick.
Bet you're al wearing two types of cloth

This is where I struggle. Why is it that if I want to understand a concept in any reasonable area of knowledge, I can pick up a book and start understanding immediately. But when it comes to religion, you have to invest an awful lot of time and energy before you even start.

How can I expect this understanding to be delivered to me? Will I get something in the mail?

BackOnlyBriefly The point is the fathers and sons were only punished / individually blamed for their own transgressions.

Wrong. The bible says god will punish the children for the iniquities of their fathers, not their own.. You can get a pen and cross out that bit in your copy, but it will still be there in all the other copies. And plenty of similar stuff too. God is always saying he will punish the innocent. It's what he does.

degradation can be inherited, if that were true then god made it that way on purpose so he would have an excuse to hurt people who otherwise might have turned out good.

infamouspoo The law still remains however you can choose to live under Grace or under the law.

Living under Grace, is described as the New Covenant, what happens, once you have accepted Jesus, is that the Holy Ghost writes the laws in your heart and you follow that.

Living under the Law is described as the Old Covenant, where you seek to follow all the laws of the Old Testament. When you failed, which you would inevitably, you had to make sacrifices in order to be blessed. Failing to keep the law also meant you were cursed. Like crime and punishment.

Back may have missed something, give me a reference and I'll see if I have the same understanding as you.

all in all that bronze age god was a bit of a tyrant.

Back Did you take the Jeremiah 21:29 bit into account?

Surely worshipping Jesus is idoltaory?

infamouspoo we were created as beings who needed communion with God. After the Fall we showed we did not trust Him, we went our own way. The Old Testament shows the consequences of this. Even then provision was made so that we could continue to be blessed until Jesus Christ came to offer redemption.

infamoupoo - No Jesus is God.

Pedro regarding concepts and understanding. You are talking about understanding God here. These concepts are Divine.

Now remember the comparison with Quantum Physics, it takes an awful lot to be able to understand that. You would not expect understanding to happen overnight here.

Now how long do you think it might take to understand God?

I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Daftdame the above verse is the one I was originally refering to. Below is the section you pointed me to. I included all three verses for the context and it seems to be saying that in future god will treat them more fairly and the children will no longer be punished for the actions of their parents.

Even if that's what it means I don't see how that makes up for the previous injustice.

Jeremiah 31:28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.

29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge.

30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

BackOnlyBriefly Thank you for digging that out.

From what I presently understand, this can be more easily accepted, once you have greater understanding of the Fall, the Old and the New Covenant, some of which was covered by earlier threads.

^ sorry posts not threads.