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Philosophy/religion

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YEC 2

999 replies

Januarymadness · 24/04/2013 21:05

Right I am going to bite. I shouldnt have looked at the facebook but I did.

Mr Ruggles you have made some horrible accusations. You have claimed everyone who disagreed with you was an atheist who lacked logic and reasoning. You were wrong on ALL counts. Many people told you they were Christian or Theists, they just didn't agree with you. The thread was also full of valid scientific arguments which were well worded and full of logic and reasoning.

You have also accused us all of being bullies. Something I saw no evidence of. Not agreeing with someone is not bullying.

So please do feel free to justify your off board comments here as speaking behind peoples backs is really not on.

Please could someone link to the old thread. Thanks

OP posts:
daftdame · 10/05/2013 22:10

Back not only me re. the picture. God is good. Smile

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 22:11

He set us free. He was King of Kings.

Free from what?

infamouspoo · 10/05/2013 22:12

just about to say that Pedro but you beat me to it Grin

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 22:13

Ok, we'll that's certainly not a situation I've had to deal with, so wouldn't be an example of something I didn't understand. But having been in an abusive relationship myself, I understand how that works.

Okay, I will take your word that there have never been matters of the heart which you have accepted despite not understanding them.

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 22:14

just about to say that Pedro but you beat me to it

I clearly have lightning fingers tonight!

daftdame · 10/05/2013 22:17

Pedro pray... to God, ask for revelation, from the Holy Ghost in Jesus' name, of the truth in The Bible. Then read the Bible. Pray in faith, believe, since this is God's will it will be answered.

BackOnlyBriefly · 10/05/2013 22:17

For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me

Hands up anyone who thinks punishing someone's kids, grandchildren and great-grandchildren is good.

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 22:19

Okay, I will take your word that there have never been matters of the heart which you have accepted despite not understanding them.

You don't have to take my word (I could of course just be saying that, after all). But I appreciate the sentiment.

I simply don't like not understanding things, it frustrates me to the point of working them out (which takes up a lot of my time!).

The one thing I won't do is just accept something without at least some understanding of it. Obviously I don't understand everything, so those things which still allude me remain in the 'to do' compartment!

daftdame · 10/05/2013 22:19

Free from being slaves to sin.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 10/05/2013 22:20

BOB - A good example of something rather unpalatable in the bible.

I'm Grin at daftdame trying to convert Pedro!

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 22:21

Pedro pray... to God, ask for revelation, from the Holy Ghost in Jesus' name, of the truth in The Bible. Then read the Bible. Pray in faith, believe, since this is God's will it will be answered.

Right, well I've read the bible, so that box is ticked.

But why should I have to ask for enlightenment if god's will is for me to have it. Can't he just send it on over?

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 22:21

I'm finding the way you cant look outside your own head Jewcy re women's rights rather sad.

I know it seems selfish. I know women have suffered to allow other women to become empowered. I know women have struggled. I know it is selfish to not feel some allegiance to feminists, but I just don't. Mind you, I don't necessarily feel allianced to men who have strived to empower me either. Am I a psychopath?

Don't answer that. Please Grin

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 22:23

Free from being slaves to sin.

So what exactly does that mean. How is one a slave to sin?

daftdame · 10/05/2013 22:24

back this is according to the Old Covenant in the Old Testament. In the New Covenant we have redemption through Christ. People who aren't Christians are still subject to this curse (genetic disease). Christians have redemption available through faith ( look at research done in epigenetics as showing the possibility of this).

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 22:24

Catholics are Christians.

Yes, this is true, but I am not Catholic, so where does that leave me when atheists talk to me as though my beliefs are the same as Catholics? How do I distinguish myself to avoid confusion?

daftdame · 10/05/2013 22:26

pedro you become a slave to sin by being deceived by Satan. You lose free will, as sin becomes an addiction.

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 22:27

Free from what?

From being shitheads! Grin

daftdame · 10/05/2013 22:28

pedro you have to ask in order to receive because God has given you free will.

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 22:33

pedro you have to ask in order to receive because God has given you free will.

Being given free will is counterintuitive, I don't buy that.

So I'm forced to have faith in order to receive the information I requested? Sounds a bit dodgy to me. By the time I get the information, I'm already subscribed to the religion and the beliefs. And presumably, if I'm not really believing, I won't get the information I want. Clever.

BestValue · 10/05/2013 22:33

Wow! I don't think I can ever catch up. We're up to 894 messages. I spent about 8 hours on here yesterday and there's so much more to respond to today. I'm going to have to start severely limiting the posts I respond to. And at this rate we're going to hit 1,000 by Sunday and it'll be over.

Hi Daft. I just see you are new here. Welcome. I haven't read through today's new posts yet but so far I like what I see from you. You don't seem like a "daft dame" to me. Smile

BackOnlyBriefly · 10/05/2013 22:33

daftdame sorry, but this is the same god right?. This is like bringing a new friend home and saying "This is Fred. He used to kill people for fun, but he has stopped now".

It's actually worse because Fred might have had a physical or mental illness before and be better now. God can't have changed can he. He is still the same god who committed sickening atrocities, The same god who said if you did something wrong he'd punish your grandchildren.

You would never do that would you. You are better than he is.

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 22:35

pedro you become a slave to sin by being deceived by Satan. You lose free will, as sin becomes an addiction.

I've not been deceived by Satan. So I don't need the freedom Jesus offers. Excellent. That's one less thing to worry about.

Now, this sinning addiction. Would it not be free will if you choose to sin?

infamouspoo · 10/05/2013 22:36

'People who aren't Christians are still subject to this curse (genetic disease). Christians have redemption available through faith ( look at research done in epigenetics as showing the possibility of this).'

What???

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 22:38

What???

That was my reaction too. Didn't respond cos I really didn't know what to say.

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 22:40

The one thing I won't do is just accept something without at least some understanding of it. Obviously I don't understand everything, so those things which still allude me remain in the 'to do' compartment!

Pedro, I will readily admit that my faith is largely based on what I feel in my heart as opposed to a purely academic understanding of God and his Word (not that I think that is at all possible anyway).

I am currently ploughing through Alister E McGrath's The Christian Theology Reader and I am seriously saddened at my lack of understanding even of some of the (supposedly) simpler concepts. For instance, I am trying to expand my knowledge about original sin, but when I look at this book I am faced with the ideas of Ambrosiaster, Donne, Edwards, feminist approaches, Luther, Origen and Tertullian - not to mention Pelagius's rejection of it! (Mind you, I think Pelagius is an arse, especially after reading about his version of grace).

What am I supposed to think? Who is right? All I can do is keep referring back to the bible and praying for some enlightenment. This has worked for me previously (but I am still in the dark regarding other stuff despite praying about it).

Sorry for waffling.