Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Original poster

YEC 2

999 replies

Januarymadness · 24/04/2013 21:05

Right I am going to bite. I shouldnt have looked at the facebook but I did.

Mr Ruggles you have made some horrible accusations. You have claimed everyone who disagreed with you was an atheist who lacked logic and reasoning. You were wrong on ALL counts. Many people told you they were Christian or Theists, they just didn't agree with you. The thread was also full of valid scientific arguments which were well worded and full of logic and reasoning.

You have also accused us all of being bullies. Something I saw no evidence of. Not agreeing with someone is not bullying.

So please do feel free to justify your off board comments here as speaking behind peoples backs is really not on.

Please could someone link to the old thread. Thanks

OP posts:
PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 21:31

The Bible, physically exists, easy look in a church or bookshop.

Agreed (and inadvertently you seem to have finally got my other point!)

Jesus, physically existed, historical evidence eg Josephus

I think Ellie's thread on evidence for Jesus refutes this.

Jesus, God and the Holy Ghost, spiritually exist one piece of evidence is that they are in the collective thoughts of Christians.

That's not evidence for existence. That's evidence that lots of people think the same thing because they read it in a book or were taught it in a church.

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 21:33

Pedro to the taster the water may have tasted like strawberries. In that way it is true.

It might well be true, but the fact that the paper exists does not in itself demonstrate that.

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 21:33

Don't worry Jewcy, anyone who says they understand Quantum Physics doesn't understand Quantum Physics.

I love this.

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 21:35

Pedro Christ exists in your thoughts too, you have asked Him why this is so hard.

You know what, I don't think he does.

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 21:35

Oh jewcy, I don't like Bush or Blair either - but they are most definitely christians (Blair's catholic I believe).

Yes, I remember reading that. Bloody Catholics Sad

daftdame · 10/05/2013 21:36

Pedro you don't understand, spiritual existence is not the same as physical existence.

For example, fear is described as one kind of spirit in The Bible.

daftdame · 10/05/2013 21:39

Pedro are you saying that you write stuff you don't mean. Did you not mean 'for Christ's sake...' Perhaps He exists subconsciously or why appeal in this way or perhaps you say stuff you don't mean, are unreliable?

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 21:40

Pedro, Sabrina, Ellie, et al, I find some of your arguments compelling and thought-provoking. Do any of you feel the same about any of Christ's teachings or anything else you have read in the bible?

This is not a trick question. I am really interested.

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 21:43

Pedro are you saying that you write stuff you don't mean.

I'm saying just because something is written doesn't make it true.

Did you not mean 'for Christ's sake...' Perhaps He exists subconsciously or why appeal in this way or perhaps you say stuff you don't mean, are unreliable?

It was deliberate and supposed to be cuttingly ironic, I guess that didn't come off Sad I'm normally so bloody funny too

Jewcy · 10/05/2013 21:44

Ok, so when someone says that people with imaginary friends who are shitheads often become shitheads themselves, they are not saying that you only get shitheads from religion. Nor are they saying that there aren't any shitheads outside of religious belief.

Similarly, when I say that you can't suggest that the bible is all true just because some of it is true, I'm not saying that it's all false because some of it is false.

Thank you, Pedro, for explaining that. Now can I ask, then, what are we to ascertain about shitheads? Or am I still lost? Sad

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 21:45

Do any of you feel the same about any of Christ's teachings or anything else you have read in the bible?

Certainly some of the stories send good messages, but I can't say I find any of it compelling in a religious sense.

daftdame · 10/05/2013 21:46

Pedro I did laugh, saw the irony, s'why I pointed it out. Grin

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 21:48

Now can I ask, then, what are we to ascertain about shitheads?

Well, what I understood from what was written was that shithead gods produce shithead followers. It's not the only way you get shitheads, but it's certainly a good way of getting them.

Don't think I've ever written the word shithead so much in one evening Grin

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 21:49

Pedro I did laugh, saw the irony, s'why I pointed it out.

Phew that's a relief..... Still got it!

daftdame · 10/05/2013 21:50

Good job I don't follow a shithead god then. Grin

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 21:53

Good job I don't follow a shithead god then.

Oh sorry, I thought you were christian. My bad. Which one's yours?

daftdame · 10/05/2013 21:57

Pedro you don't understand the meaning of Christian.

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 22:00

Enlighten me?

daftdame · 10/05/2013 22:04

Pedro you need spiritual enlightenment (the Holy Ghost). Why don't you ask Him to help you. I'm not up to the job.

infamouspoo · 10/05/2013 22:05

Catholics are Christians.
I'm finding the way you cant look outside your own head Jewcy re women's rights rather sad.
As for Josephus. There's still a great deal of debate about the authenticity of the references to his writings given that no manuscript survives but as a jew he would not have referred to Yeshua as the massiach. Thats an aside however.
I have no idea if 'Jesus' existed but he certainly wouldnt have been a jewish messiah. Any interpretation of the prophecies have that guy as a warrior who would free the land from the oppressors and rule as King.

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 10/05/2013 22:06

Pedro, Sabrina, Ellie, et al, I find some of your arguments compelling and thought-provoking. Do any of you feel the same about any of Christ's teachings or anything else you have read in the bible?

Oh definitely. I think there are some great stories in the bible - and I think some/ possibly a lot of the morality is positive. Do as you would be done by is always a good one. But on the other hand, there's some rather nasty stuff in there too - admittedly more so in the OT than the NT.

I had an excellent religious studies teacher for many years at school - she taught the bible stories with such gusto, lessons were great. But some of those stories haunted me - the killing of the first borns in Egypt being a good example, also King Herod's slaughter of the babies. Terrible stories. Possibly turned me off religion and the idea of a 'loving' god for life.

Just too much of this - plus too many contradictions in the bible - taken as a whole - for me to accept that it is either the word of god, or could be taken literally.

BackOnlyBriefly · 10/05/2013 22:07

daftdame' it may be that you draw a picture of a nice god and then do what you think he wants and this results in you doing nice things. It would actually be easier if you had named this god something else. By defining yourself as being Christian you choose to inherit all the baggage that comes with being Christian as defined by the other Christians out there

So you're bound to get people saying "which god? the one in the OT? but he did awful things and you support him?" etc etc.

daftdame · 10/05/2013 22:08

infamous He set us free. He was King of Kings.

infamouspoo · 10/05/2013 22:10

thats your belief daftdame, not mine. I'm not a Christian.

PedroYoniLikesCrisps · 10/05/2013 22:10

Pedro you need spiritual enlightenment (the Holy Ghost). Why don't you ask Him to help you. I'm not up to the job.

And how would I do that?