I have absolute proof that there is no God.

[seeker]

I've just seen in our local paper that a little girl who lives in our town has died. She has been the focus of much prayer since she was taken ill last year. Her parents were thoroughly good Christian people who trusted God absolutely.

The is no way that a loving, omnipotent, beneficent God who notes even a sparrow falling would not have answered these people's prayer.

So, if I had even a scintilla of doubt, it is now gone. There is no God.

awful x post there.my post was to the 21.12pm post.

Personally I think that's a little harsh to BlessedAssurance td, though I can understand people's reluctance at being the subject of uninvited prayer. I think anyone who wants to pray for others should probably ask if that would be appreciated whenever possible, and be particularly careful about suggesting the person may have been "hurt in any way" - though it's probably fair to say that, life being what it is, that will be true for us all.

Fair enough to say this is more of a discussion than a prayer thread. But also OK for all to share their POV

I'm with technodad, what a crock, Blessed!

With you Juggling... :)

Blessed.....that's bloody patronising! "sad news"? etc

My heart hasn't got any eyes. Prayer rejected as incompatible with observed facts :)

Praying for my "eyes to be opened" is not sharing a point of view.

However, if praying for me makes people happy, then who am I to deny them. I wish they wouldn't, because I wish they would open their minds a little, and practice using their intellects. But it makes no odds to me. Except in the wqy that it adds to the total of nonesense in the world, and there's more than enough already.

Oh believe me, my eyes were yanked open and propped up with bamboo sticks the past nearly 9 months. And my heart? It's been ripped out and shards put back in. Comfort? Ha!

Oh, expat ... thinking of you still.

You do not need proof that their is no god or great sky fairy. It is more incumbent on those who believe to provide one scintilla of proof. Unfortunately despite them having 2 thousand years to do so they still have not one shred of evidence. I mean considering all the other texts from the time of supposed jesus and yet not one book was written until hundreds of years after about a man from a town that there is no archaeological evidence of being lived in around that time.

Oh and as for the copied story of a resurrection. You'd think considering how many other historical paper from that time full of boring details there are in existance someone somewhere would have written about the easter sunday when not only was this supposed jesus meant o have risen up but the bible also says ALL the saints in jerusalem rose from their tombs and walked again. So it was no just one person it was hundreds and yet not one historian wrote about the day when everyone was meeting long dead folks in the streets.

The problem is the don't even read their own book and think about what it actually says and thin hang about that's just BS.

The arrogance is to think that out of 300-500 billion stars in our own galaxy that would give around 5 to 10 times that as planets that this is the only one with life and that they are the only special ones that were created by a god.

There are at least 300 billion galaxies so that is...
90,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars but hey they think a god made them and there is no life anywhere else. Bonkers. Just because you don't understand the astrophysics you don't need to make up fairy tales.

mad said Animal sacrifice was simply a means of people struggling to placate God, when all God really wanted was a pure heart towards God.

You make it sound like god wasn't bothered either way. God LOVED the smell of burning animals, he said it was a wonderful aroma. And there was nowt simple about. It was very controlled. And why they even need to sacrifice? it wasn't even an unusual practice in that era was it? Why did there need to be shedding of blood? It just seems barbaric.

Would it ever ever occur to you to get someone to sacrifice an animal to appease you? It makes no sense when you look at it outside the box.

How do you know the Koran isn't divinely inspired?

expat. I think of you so much.

How nice to see you, Novack :)

Head. Many OT texts seem to indicate God's desire for people's hearts to be pure towards God, and the aroma thing is merely a sign that someone is giving of their best. In some places it says God hates their offerings, because they are not given with pure motives, and just wants a clean heart and loving actions. You need to look at the whole :)

Animal sacrifice is an interesting study in itself as well, another one of those things we look at with our 21st C eyes and say 'uh?' Yet then, within that culture in that time, quite normal, and a lot less barbaric than the other cultures and nations around them, who practised child sacrifice among other things. There are marked differences.

I believe the Bible is inspired by God and written by fallible humans, and read it in this light. I believe it is inspired because of two things, the compelling evidence for Jesus Christ (Novack doesn't appear to have read up on early biblical and non biblical writings in an awful lot of depth, hundreds of years??? Um no....try later that century.), and because of my every day experience of a God who loves and transforms lives :)

Excellent post novack I'm totally with you!

expat I wish I could say something meaningful, but words always fail me, I think you have every right to be mightly pissed off with life. Thinking of you

(have following thread since the beg, havdn't posted much as you have all been so much more eloquent than I coud ever be. Very interesting debate)

I'm not pissed off, just that I don't believe in a lot of stuff I used to.

Oh, sorry to assume expat, I may have projected a little there.., my fatgwr's death when I was 18 meant I totally lost my (admittedly already shaken) faith. But my overwhelming feeling was anger.

There is no historical evidence of any jesus from 2 thousand years ago, claire but please do add on an actual name of a text if you think I have missed something. Actual gospel that were written to make up a new religion from 150 years CE to the council of Nicosia do not count as they are just the ramblings of people trying to invent a new religion.

But the arrogance of the christians knows no bound to claim that out of all the exoplanets they are the chosen people. As I say not understanding astrophysics is no shame as it is for the exceptionally intelligent in many areas but to then hide your head in the sand and say it is a great sky fairy is just nonsense. Nothing wrong with saying You don't know. No need to con grannies out of their pensions week in week out for collections etc.

"There is no historical evidence of any jesus from 2 thousand years ago, claire but please do add on an actual name of a text if you think I have missed something."

Not sure why ylu say that Novack? I was actually agreeing with you!

I haven't done any research myself, but I would tend tot hink that if any irrefutable evidence of the existence of Jesus had been found we would have known by now and we wouldn't we having this kind of conversations.

It's a jolly good thing I don't believe in a Sky Fairy, then hey Novack?

Actually, the 27 books of the New Testament were all written within a couple of generations of Jesus' death and resurrection. By the end of the first century, not half way through the second. The books were regarded as authoritative from very early on, with supporting texts found in early Christian writings. There are actually early manuscripts in the hundreds around, far far more than for the writings of eg Plato. And the impetus for bringing the books together, far from being a convoluted way of starting a 'new religion', was simply to stand out against various systems of the time attempting to muddy the waters with their added on philosophies (gnosticism etc). You have to ask yourself why a bunch of people would get together to start something like Christianity with no background of reality whatsoever. And gospels are widely regarded as historical source documents and cannot be discounted with the ease you would seem to like. There is much evidence for Jesus 2,000 years ago, and not only from biblical sources. Josephus, a Roman-Jewish historian, a contemporary of Jesus, refers to Jesus, John the Baptist and to Christianity. The source is regarded by most scholars as highly authentic.

God reads MN, who knew?

Madhairy you are misrepresenting ideas as fact and you know it. There are no letters to a jesus and if you actually go to Israel and visit Nazareth perhaps instead of visiting the fake disneyesque set up mangers actually ask the archaeologist there if there is proof of there being settlement there around 2000 years ago and they will answer. NO.

Funny though how even the books you claim that were written cannot even agree on details or even potray jesus as someone who could not even tell the time. After all he says he will not give any proof then he says later on, oh okay then I will give proof and rise AFTER 3 days like Jonah in the whale. Well he went in a tomb on a friday and arose on the sunday. THAT IS ONLY 2 days. Friday to tomorrow is one day and that is Saturday. The day after saturday is Sunday. ONLY TWO DAYS. Not too bright is he.

Perhaps you can explain how your man who was without sin swears and curses at an Olive bush because it has no fruit on it. Swearing and cursing is pretty sinful and lets be honest a man who supposedly grew up in that region must be pretty dopey to think there would be fruit on the tree at Easter time as anyone with even one olive tree knows that olives don't ripen in that part of the world until late Jully, August at the earliest. The man who was supposed to be the son of god and god, could not even tell the seasons let alone the time.

Oh and then they could not even remember simple facts if those writings of yours are original in any way. The resurrction is the fundamental of the christian faith without it the faith is nothing and yet Luke says he arose to heaven straight away yet in acts jesus stayed for 40 days on the earth. I mean what was it he saw his old friend he went off or he was around for over a month... simple fact and yet the bible can't get it right. Or where was jesus to meet the disciples when he arose. One book says Galilee the other says Jerusalem. Well if your the son of god who was a fisherman you'd think you would be able to not be out by 160 km on distances don't you especially sine they cold not just jump in a taxi.. Or is that why NOBODY saw the mythical made up man.

I't simple really. Go read your bible with open eyes instead of just blindly following it's woo woo.

I do not need to wonder why a bunch of people got together to start a religion in the first place as that is what people have been doing since time in memorial from when the first conman met the first fool as they say.

Most bible stories are just copies of other assyrian, babylonian writing etc etc fro the virgin birth to the resurrection they bible has ripped off every story as 50 shades of shite is a rip off of Twilight.

The man who wold be president of the USA wears what he thins are magic pajamas and follows a religion started 150 years ago by a man who was wanted for fraud!!

Oh, who's that in your last line Novack ? - the would be president with the magic pyjamas ? And what religion is he ?
< just curious >

Novak, you've just made spend nearly an hour reading up on archaeological findings in a town I don't care about

You're right. There was a Bronze to Iron Age settlement near Nazareth, then absolutely nothing until the year 70. And it has been very thoroughly examined! The mystery man grew up in a non-existent town. How interesting!

Novack is referring to Mitt Romney, Juggling. He's a Mormon. I think he also had his fil converted to mormonism after his death (and so obviously without his knowledge!).

Oh, that is interesting garlic - thanks for looking into it for us !

Wasn't there an OT "prophesy" that the Messiah would be called a "Nazarene" ?
(Could possibly be wrong about that)

That might explain where the idea came from (to fulfil a prophecy) however seems odd if town of Nazareth didn't exist when OT prophecy written ?