I have absolute proof that there is no God.

[seeker]

I've just seen in our local paper that a little girl who lives in our town has died. She has been the focus of much prayer since she was taken ill last year. Her parents were thoroughly good Christian people who trusted God absolutely.

The is no way that a loving, omnipotent, beneficent God who notes even a sparrow falling would not have answered these people's prayer.

So, if I had even a scintilla of doubt, it is now gone. There is no God.

No because the prophecy yo speak of was written in the NT not the old. So basically it was a prophecy written after the fact or... after the fallacy to be more accurate.

Ah, thanks Novack ( not so much a prophesy then ? )

Josephus wasn't a contemporary, Madhair, he was born in the year 37 - around the time Jesus died (supposedly). He only mentioned Jesus in once in the Antiquities, which he wrote in his sixties - twenty years after writing a work on the Jewish Wars, when you might have thought he'd mention such a major event. By the time he wrote Antiquities, christianity had arrived in Rome which is probably why he mentioned him then.

I'm developing a sneaking admiration for whoever did start it off, then! I'd assumed it was a popular mythology based on real events. Not the supernatural ones, obv, but a gifted preacher from Nazareth. I know the Israelis were pissed off with Jewish government corruption at the time, so it seemed pretty logical that a persuasive, socialist rabbi could have roused dissent. But he wouldn't have been wrong about his own home town, would he? Even if he was too thick to know when olives fruit

Of course, if he was actually an alien, he could have done all that stuff and probably not known about regional agriculture ...

he also had his fil converted to mormonism after his death

There is no end to the silliness of the most powerful nation on earth attached to religion!

Nah, Juggling, retrospective prophecies are definitely more reliable!

... except when referring to invisible places.

Oh baptising the dead and the living without the family knowing. That's a funny old cult practice. Or lets think about an angel called Moroni (couldn't make that name up could you) who appears and gives a known conman golden plates that only he can read and see if he sits in a tent behind a blanket with his head in a sack and then reads aloud what is written on them and nobody else can see them or even feel them.

You'd think if you were going to meet your mates in two three days you'd have at least got the town right and not told some you'd be 160 miles away. It's not like you can even cover that distance by donkey or camel that quick and with all the those others coming out of their tombs in jerusalem that day blocking up the traffic then you'd think spotting your dead mate would have been even harder what with everyone out in the streets being godsmacked at all those who had turned up out of the blue grave.

And what a great example for children. Mum can I have an olive. Sorry dear they're not in season for 6 months.. WHAT OH FFS mum!!!! Dad said he made them and everything!!

I'd be more concerned if there were no irregularities in the texts, to be honest. If they were word for word, time for time, place for place identical I'd be far more suspect of a conspiracy to put something together. You'd have thought they'd bother to get their facts straight if they were making up something so momentous.

As for Nazareth, the arguments for its' non existence only go so far as there being nothing written about it in, for eg, Josephus or other first century writings. But would there really be records of a tiny and looked down upon hamlet, especially in such times? Why would Nazareth be documented? Hardly that great centre of commerce. Archaeological evidence has been hotly discussed but even non believing scholars have advised caution on this one. It's not clear cut. Thing is, for all of these points there will be a wealth of internet sites - the for, the against and the slightly off the wall. You could decide to be convinced by either, but for me, it's the reality of relationship in my life that makes the difference. I am also of fervent conviction that the evidence for Jesus stands strong, despite so much written against it all.

Josephus - he was 1st Century, that's enough of a contemporary for me, when we're talking 2,00 years He mentioned Jesus more than once, and mentioned his execution and the claims of his followers (disputed by scholars, but hey, what isn't?)

The claim that 'bible writings are a rip off of ancient writings from eg assyria' is yet another one which is unfounded in fact. For one, Jewish 1st Century writers would have had no way or reason to know of any such 'writings'.

I believe it happened, and transforms lives today. I know words will never prove, and don't really wish to fight with words. I enjoy engaging with the issue, but personal attack goes a little beyond the bounds.

Archaeological evidence ... It's not clear cut. You must be referring to the 1" shard of an oil lamp nozzle, which can't be accurately dated. Not to the painstaking excavations that found only natural soil strata between the Iron Age and year 70. OK.

The stories to which Novack refers, Madhair, are folk tales. They're not 'written' by their nature; they're retold through the generations, gaining embellishments as they go. Anyway, if written mythologies were evidence of fact, you'd have to believe the Greek pantheon existed. And their Roman counterparts.

I do agree that basic christian morality is worthwhile, though ... other thread.

So scholars.. that's people who have actually studied the evidence are to be disbelieved according to you. Despite a preponderance of evidence dispelling the jesus myths

Jewish 1st century writers did know all those other stories as they were peoples passing through that crossroads to the east for centuries at that time. It is not far from Indian you know as the camel/ donkey /pack horse moves and commerce was rife in those areas. and mentioned in other contemporary writing of the time. They were widely told stories.

Please though as as wrote before just provide me with one actual contemporary writing of fact about the man at the time. Just one ore even just explain the complete lack of consistency and contradiction. As you say I could forgive one simply inaccuracy but when the fallacies are so blatant ad contradictory of something that claims to be god breathed and used for the teaching of ma forgive me if i could expect a tiny miniscule piece of truth in it.

I kept it simply and stuck to the basic tenant of the faith and pointed out vast fallacies in the easter story. The most important celebration of the faith. If you like we can go to the start and point out the two completely different versions of creation in genesis if you like.
It does no transform or heal any lives. It destroys and creates division and is a religion of hate of bigotry and intolerance on a genocidal scale.

Morality exist without religion. No religion can claim it is the bastion of morality. Peoples of all areas whether religious or not were moral long before any missionaries turned up.

madhairday said : "I'd be more concerned if there were no irregularities in the texts, to be honest. If they were word for word, time for time, place for place identical I'd be far more suspect of a conspiracy to put something together. You'd have thought they'd bother to get their facts straight if they were making up something so momentous."

Classic - so the fact that there are massive contradictions and errors throughout, is evidence for the book being accurate. I am glad you aren't a scientist, as we would be a bit further away from the Higgs Boson! Genius!

"I do agree that basic christian morality is worthwhile, though ... other thread."

Well, apart from the child sacrifice, stoning people to death, (I shan't give the whole list).

Basically, if you pick the good bits, then it is good!

At the end of the day, society picked the good bits and added to it to make our modern society, so not really Christianity.

Go on then technodad, explain the Higgs Boson to me ?!

Well, you know I agree with you Techno. Also that I deduce morality is a product of our evolution. Just trying not to trample too hard on those who choose to hang their niceness on a myth, is all. As long as they're decent human beings, anyone is welcome to their personal mythology. It is obscene, imo, that the preacher of love has been (and is) used as an excuse for violence. I'd like for believers to acknowledge this ... but, hey, I don't believe in miracles!

Lets leave out the morality of offering your virgin daughters to be gang raped in order that your gay friends don't go out for a good time when they are visiting. That's a good christian moral. Oh or kill eveyone except the virgins who you can keep for yourself. Oh or how about all those christians over the years who beat throw out their unmarried and pregnant daughters because of their beliefs when Mary was, yes you guess it unmarried and pregnant and oh wait for it...probably only 13 as she was only promised to the joseph character which in the contemporary jewish was at that time means she could not be more than 14!!!

You see madhairy, if you actually read your bible you'd know all this and maybe start to question what is said to convince you week in week out from the pulpit or the TV evangelical to the actual facts of the books and time.

Juggling: The Higgs Boson walks into a Catholic Church. Priest says "What are you doing here?" HB says "You can't have mass without me."

HAHAHAHAAAAAH!

Very good technodad & enjoyed your link to the "Good book" song too ... well worth checking that one out everyone

(Does seem a bit crazy that with all the books that have been written in the last two thousand years so many people (including many of my friends and myself over the years to some extent) give quite so much time and attention to trying to make sense of this one ! Still, I guess people love a challenge )

Juggling said: "(Does seem a bit crazy that with all the books that have been written in the last two thousand years so many people (including many of my friends and myself over the years to some extent) give quite so much time and attention to trying to make sense of this one ! Still, I guess people love a challenge )"

I know! I prefer The Gruffalo, but it is a far harder narrative, so I can understand why people steer away from it!

Juggling,

Have you heard any of Tim Minchin's songs before? They are not all about religion (although quite a few are). One of my favourite songs is about Prejudges - Very clever and hilarious song:

Have you tried the Gruffalo's Child techno ?

• that one's even harder to get your head round, as I realised reading it to a group of 4 year olds and realised I'd lost them all and had lost the plot myself

bash those god fearing peoples,every god fearing person i know is a criminal,i'm sure that they fear nothing but
death,and hope there is something after death,there is it called decomposing,how can any of you people beleive in god in this time,maybe years ago but not now