I have absolute proof that there is no God.

[seeker]

I've just seen in our local paper that a little girl who lives in our town has died. She has been the focus of much prayer since she was taken ill last year. Her parents were thoroughly good Christian people who trusted God absolutely.

The is no way that a loving, omnipotent, beneficent God who notes even a sparrow falling would not have answered these people's prayer.

So, if I had even a scintilla of doubt, it is now gone. There is no God.

sorry, I meant "nothing" rather than "noting" on my second line.

amillion I know the bible, not as well as some on here but definitely better than most because I used to be a tongue speaking, hand raising Christian.

I have heard it suggested that if more Christians read more of the Bible in it's entirety there'd be more atheists and I see what they mean. I still have some books from the old days lying about and it's all lovey dovey bible promises type fayre. You're definitely steered away from the genocide and rape in bible studies.

I do remember one particular study. It was held in the nave of our local parish by the vicar who, if I remember correctly, was sat there in all his get-up. He asked us to read a certain passage from Psalms together out loud but said 'only to the end of verse 8' only some of us forgot and carried on and verse 9 was HORRENDOUS in the way only the OT can be.

Even at the time I did have a giggle about how the tone suddenly changed from nicey nicey to 'blood thirsty homicidal maniac David' and how you've never seen an OAP react so fast. 'We'll leave it there shall we!'.

I meant most as in general population btw

"I do remember one particular study. It was held in the nave of our local parish by the vicar who, if I remember correctly, was sat there in all his get-up. He asked us to read a certain passage from Psalms together out loud but said 'only to the end of verse 8' only some of us forgot and carried on and verse 9 was HORRENDOUS in the way only the OT can be. "

That's hilarious headinhands. I'd sometimes wondered how christians deal with the horrible bits of the bible, but I'd never imagined that some just refused to read them out!

""the greater the education,the greater the tendancy towards atheism"
This is because,the more money people have,the greater the tendancy to rely on it,instead of God
The bible says something about it is easier for a camel to go through a needle,than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven."

It's nothing to do with money. Educated people learn to question. And if you question you realise that religion is ...well....basically unsupportable nonsense.

That's why the church discourages questioning. When I was a child, roman Catholics thought it was a sin to go into other christian churches- even to look at the pictures!

A lifetime of loss, that's what we got. A lifetime of loss, grief and sorrow. On top of enough other shit it's like a sorry ass blues song. And people still think there's this God out there who gives a toss.

Yeah, right.

www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jul/17/creationist-groups-approval-free-schools [headbang]

Nice bit of sorry-ass blues there, expat

technodad,you and others have till the day you die to decide about God.And why do you think you are definitely not going to become a Christian.You seem to me to be searching.Carry on searching,and you will find.It is the people who are apathetic to it all,that are potentially more likely not to find God.
I cant answer the question about does it scare me if all there is is nothingness.I think,even as a child,I believed in a childlike way.I may have misunderstood that paragraph.Are you saying that you are happier now knowing that there is death,than when you were a child, and thought there was nothingness at the end?

headinhands,I rely on God for absolutely everything.I cant think of anything I dont rely on him for.
I have to help myself,use common sense,use my brain and whatever.
But if we rely on people,all people are flawed,all people die at some point,and people get ill.And things,they rust,breakdown etc.Soem of our rulers cannot be trusted,and again are only people.Groups of people can be useful,but again,at the end of the day,are still people.

headinhands,I agree that Christian leaders stay away from some topics in the bible.The more uncomfortable stuff,the stuff they personally dont understand so well,and stuff they personally dont like.
That is why hopefully people that are listening also read the bible for themselves.Then we can sift through what they are sometimes saying.

seeker "the church discourages questioning".I would personally leave any particular church,or any denomination that did that.

expatinscotland,normally I try and imagine myself in someone elses shoes,but I cannot do that with you.I wouldnt dream of trying to advise you on anything.I hope you find some comfort from the people you come into contact with.

There are only two things that will ever comfort any parent who has lost a child: going back in time and having them back, or their own death.

But God? Well, hey, if He wanted to be of 'comfort' He'd never have taken them in the first place.

amilion I don't understand your concept of rely maybe. Can you be specific? What is god doing to help you on a daily basis that you couldn't get elsewhere?

Again it brings me back to the reality that there is no discernible difference between the everyday realities of your day to day gubbins as there is mine. But if you have 24 hour access to the intelligence behind the universe shouldn't there be some telling difference?

If all the greatest minds in the world got together and were there for me to talk to any time I unwanted and give me specific advice about anything, anything, well I bet my life would change somehow. And that's just human intelligence. And Christians think they have god on tap?

I rely on other people, that's all I have in this world but it's working quite well mostly. I appreciate people aren't perfect, I don't expect them to be, I know I will be let down at times in the same way I have let others down and that's good enough for me .

"the church discourages questioning".I would personally leave any particular church,or any denomination that did that.

Billions of christians don't though (leave, that is). IME most churches allow questioning - on their terms. The rc church for example will allow you to ask questions. But, you are expected to accept the answers. If you keep at it, keep questioning the response, you either get comments like 'so you think you know better than god?, or (my favourite), ah well Molly, that would be a mystery. I nearly gave my poor priest a breakdown over whether animals have souls!

My best friend throughout childhood was an evangelist. Her church again encouraged questioning and learning - but only asking questions that they believed they had answers to, and reading material they approved of (ie that agreed with them). Incidentally, she thought i was going to hell in a handcart for being rc - her church didn't think they were 'proper christians'. Imagine her delight when i broke with the church - and became a pantheistic pagan!

headinhands,2 examples of my prayers today.
A person who I dont know very well,but has been asking me for advice about jobs..Her son is going for a job interview today.I have prayed that,if God wants him too, that he gets the job.
A posh friend of mine has asked to come round tonight unexpectedly,as in she rang up last night,and wants to see me tonight.My DH is extremely busy at the moment,and has not had time to help me move a few things outside that are destined for the scrap heap.I have prayed that she either doesnt notice the items or that she doesnt care about it.She has been a friend for 30 years,but her house is always immaculate,so that is a bit of my own insecurity shining through.

I feel I need to put the above into some sort of context.
Because I have been asked a lot about my personal prayers on here,I analysed my prayers for a 24 hour period.I have never done anything like that before.
I discovered I prayed about 49 times.More often than I thought I was doing.They were of several types.Approx 5 for personal guidance,8 to look after different people in different ways,6 of praise to God,12 asking for help with something or other,8 of various thank yous,and 10 miscellaneous.

I have prayed that, if God wants him too, that he gets the job.

So why bother praying? If you didn't add the bit about 'if god wants him too' would it force god to do something he didn't want to? Would he do it anyway but sulk at the same time and not talk to you for a couple of days, maybe slamming the fridge door in a passive aggressive manner because you made him do something he didnt want to?

I have prayed that she either doesnt notice the items or that she doesnt care about it

I really dont want to sound facetious but why should god get busy distracting your friend from seeing a piece of furniture whilst ignoring starving people, people being raped, people being tortured, people drowning and so on? Do you honestly not find that reality just even a little bit nonsensical?

headinhands,second part,God has time for everything.
first part,God might not do it if I didnt pray.

So if god wants him to get the job, he will, but he might turn out not to want him to enough to remember magicking it to happen if you don't ask?

And he has time to magic it so your friend doesn't notice any mess, but not time to sort out all the cancer and stuff? Or does he have time for that, but not really want to? Or people haven't asked nicely enough? or what?

God has time for everything.
We have to pray,else we may not get.
Its Gods choice at the end of the day,not ours.

What hasnt been mentioned on here is the Devil.
I hesitate even to write that.
My knowledge on that is sketchy.
But God can overcome the Devil,or what he has done.

amillion I don't mean that he can't do both simultaneously but that he isn't doing both. While god will be saying yes to your prayer he will be saying no to someone who is begging him to stop someone raping/killing/torturing them. Maybe the person being raped should pray "please stop this person raping me, if you want him to stop raping me"?

headinhands,would you say you are a Christian now?

We have to pray,else we may not get.
Its Gods choice at the end of the day,not ours.

You dont see the contradiction there? You think that your friend's son might not get the job god wants him to get unless you pray so effectively you're the one in charge of god. But then you say it's god's choice? So do you need to pray or not?