Hallelujah He is Here - Chataway

[DutchOma]

Well here you are then I don't post often, but just to save Nickel a job...

the answers are:
1 true
2 false - both aspects are equally important
3 true
4 false - both styles of music are needed
5 false - the vicar should be in charge of cure of souls, but it's important that the leadership team and each faction needs to feel they can make decisions on the day-to-day stuff without having always to refer to the vicar for permission.

How about this?

"How do you deal with conflict in your church, with particular reference to either worship style or music preferences? You might like to consider the following before you make your answer:"

books.google.co.uk/books?id=9SHw4Ze7mrkC&pg=PA17&lpg=PA17&dq=bacon+sandwiches+salvation+bride+of+christ&source=bl&ots=6d3OAXBQoy&sig=7ZBP443Xu7D-N3Ne7PXOE6YiIlE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EmG2T6P-G4S28QOB6anRCg&ved=0CGQQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

:o

That is a very funny book Mary - I was lucky enough to spot it in a charity shop not long ago and it often had me laughing out loud

very good.
I'm a veggie, don't like the bacon analogy (my head has replaced it with "fried egg"

I hope they don't think it's a bone of contention with "conflict" at heart!

we're a bit at the moment about why our Team Rector thinks that our upcoming organ recital isn't appropriate.
Apparently he said it wasn't in line with what we were trying to achieve.
Not entirely sure what he meant by that - we've done 2 "celebrity" organ recitals already (in the past 2 years), and they've been received really well.

The only thing we can think of is that we have to pay this organist a large sum of money for his fee (the other two have been profit-share, and not received an awful lot of money)
It means that we have to get as many people as possible before we can even start making a profit.
I can't see any other reason for not thinking it's appropriate - it gets people into the church, and my philosophy on the subject is "let's worry about getting the christ message across later - it's easier to convert church-goers into christians than it is to get christians to come to the church"

Change the word conflict to something else? :)

As for the organ recital, maybe its the fee that he's objecting to? Or that you're bringing in an outside person (who may have his/her own following and hence boost numbers). We're hiring a brass band for the end of June, for a last night of the proms. One of the only times the church is truly full to bursting is when we do things like this (some funerals and Remembrance Sunday excepted).

I heart Adrian Plass. He's always made me laugh.

I like Mary's question.

And I think you should go in your belly dancing getup

Off to look at contentious thread...

And aaaagh! Blue, can't believe they are saying thaty, surely sunday worship is part of your paid work? Hope it can get sorted.

I don't think the outside person can be a problem - i don't think!

I'm all in favour of hiring ourselves out as a concert venue - I think it's a great way to use the building.

trying to think of ways it would have been used originally - i see the church as a community building, so it shouldn't be restricted to religious events.

We're having a beer festival in our church the end of June. Now that HAS been contentious, but believe it or not, it has encouraged some to church, and others to see the place as part of the community not just for religious bible bashers :D

I've been given something to consider, am a bit eek about it and it would probably mean my standing down as CW before I've even started, so would welcome prayer, please.

you can definitely have prayer for that.
It's not good to have to worry about that kind of thing (I know what I'm saying)

Hi all, you've dropped of my 'I'm on' list so I'm getting you back!

Nickel... Can you not ask the Team Rector (through gritted teeth nicely) what specifically he objects to about the organ recital. It makes a bit of a difference, I think, if he objects to the very idea of the thing, or if he's just nervous about the large fee. Not saying he's right, either way, but it would help you to know how to respond to him if you knew exactly which aspect he felt wasn't in keeping what you are trying to achieve.

And I agree with you... getting people through the door should be precisely what you're trying to achieve.

We've had a bit of controversy recently about the idea of the cathedral being opened up more to local businesses, post-refurb. 'Mney-lenders in the temple' were mentioned, inevitably, but again I would tend to say that, as long as it's appropriate (e.g. there was a recent food festival that could have made use of the space) it's just another way of getting people in.

Oops... missed Millie... Hi Millie... [waves]

Mary - prayers for calm and clear thinking over the thing to be considered.

Thanks, its about another role I've been asked to take on, but its quite demanding, doesn't pay anything but potentially has good outcomes for a lot of people.

I'm sure you'd be great, Mary...

Hello everyone! (have namechanged, its me, becaroooo!)

Sorry I havent been around for a while but what with biopsys and back ops I have been off line a bit.

I am all of a dither atm tbh.

Our bishop came to preach at our church yesterday and I am still freaked out I have seldom had such an experience in church...I felt as if (as others could have done I am sure!) that he was speaking specifically to me and asking the questions I have been asking myself for the last few months...

What is your critical moment?
How do you recognise it?
What is your vocation?
What can you do?

A role is coming up (a paid role) as a children and youth worker. Its pretty much my dream job and I think I would be good at it.

Please pray that I get some guidance and decide whether to apply for the post.
x

Sounds good badvoc :)

Trouble is TUO I think it would be a bit of a poisoned chalice, with a lot of stress. I wouldn't mind being involved in the project, but not to be the one who people fire arrows at...

Badvoc, sorry love, you've had your guidance, now go for it.

Mary, is this a temptation or the opening of a real door to something God is asking you to do?

Oma Arrghhh...I was worried someone might say that!!

I hope you are ok?

I asked the bishop a question at the Q&A after the service re: his feelings on the govts proposed cap of £7500 for FSM for children (I feel VERY strongly about this issue) and he agreed with me how disgisting it is and told me to "do something".

So.

I have written to my MP, M Gove and the PM and am going to the local MPs surgery on friday. Have any of you seen the CUF report today on the BBC news website? Shocking...in some parts of Liverpool child pverty is 64% [anger] I feel like doing a Martin luther and naling the report to the door of No 10 (but I think I might get arrested )

Badvoc I was going to say it sounds like you've had your guidance!

Yes, nailing things to the door of No10 is probably not the best plan but righteous anger can be a force for good.

Hi Badvoc - Yup, it sounds to me like you need to go for it, too. Good luck!

Mary - I can sympathise with that. My current role (at work, I mean) puts me in the position of 'the one who takes the flak' a lot of the time, and it can be tough. On the other hand, I - who am 'in real life' often over sensitive to criticism and a bit of a worry-pants - have found that when I am doing things that people find difficult when (a) it's part of my role and (b) I really believe in it and have the support of people I trust (even if they aren't there taking the flak with me) it seems to be OK. Oma's question, as always, is spot-on, but I'd also say... if you believe in the project but don't feel that you are the right person to lead it, ask yourself how you'd feel if you saw it being taken forward by someone who didn't believe in it in the way that you do, or if it failed for lack of leadership altogether... I don't know if these are useful questions, or if I'm just extrapolating from the kind of thinking I did before taking on my current role, so if what I'm saying isn't useful, just ignore.

Tuo - i would love to ask him, but unfortunately, the message came to me through someone else through someone else.
ie: I can't guarantee what the accuracy of the message is, and I don't want to talk to the TR (will be calling the Team Rector this from now on cos it's shorter :) ) just in case that's not actually what he said.

agree, this money-lenders in the temple thing. The equivalent to a modern church is more that markets would be held for the marketeers benefit only , the church wouldn't get any money, oh and that they would be conducted from the High altar! (working on the assumption, as scholars do now, that the part of the temple that was being used wasn't the outer "everyone comes and goes" part, but the central part reserved for prayer.)

hi Bec Badvoc :)
I know what you mean - what is it about bishes and archbishes that makes them choose words that say "hey, I'm talking to you "!
One of our older choristers had this exact problem the last time the archbish came to us. He'd been really really considering leaving the choir because Knobhead was trying to change everything, close the choir from outside etc etc, and everyone was generally unhappy - he was considering leaving because his health problems meant that he really shouldn't have to deal with stressful situations. Then the archbish came along and did his sermon about the church-parts-of-the-body thing, and basically said to Chorister "yeah, you leave, the choir will fold. you've got to accept things aren't perfect, but everyone needs to play their part. there's no choir without every single person being in it"
Thank God he spoke on that subject at that time!

Bad - that's awful! So they're saying "you can have FSM, but you have to starve" ?!
How can they do that to children?
You can't cap it like that - you have to go by need, never by budget!

I do need help, though.

I was told yesterday that Someone has offered their services as PCC secretary.
That Someone is not a good candidate for the job. He's pompous, arrogant, self-righteous and snide. As well as being rather ineffectual and inept.
The worst thing about these qualities in him is that he's got a way of hiding them! (that doesn't mean they don't exist, it means that you don't notice them until too late...)
The problem is, the role of secretary is one that few people want!
I feel like it should be my duty to step up to the role, so that Someone doesn't get it (I can't see anyone else offering if there's already an offer in place).
But I would be crap. totally CRAP.
I was WI secretary once, and sucked at it.

I don't know what to do.
If I object to him being given the post, I will be forced/coerced etc to take it instead (the old "well, someone's got to do it, and if you don't want Someone to do it, then you'll have to do it"), and if I do badly at it, then I'll get "well, you didn't want Someone to do it!"