Really moved by reaction of faithful to the Pope.

[bamboostalks]

Realise that there is a huge amount of negativity and vitriol on here atm with regards to the Pope's visit. However mumsnet is for all and there are plenty of Catholics who are pleased to see him here. This is a thread to celebrate this. I was really moved at the reaction of people in Glasgow yesterday. It was so emotional to see the babies hepd up for his blessing, he really did radiate a serene presence. Love his message as well, it is time to be proud to be a Christian. Hope all those going to see him have a fantastic time.

If God didn't intend people to enjoy having sex, why did he make it so enjoyable (done right)? If you believe God is all-seeing and all-knowing and all-powerful, why do you think he put all those nerve endings in our external genitalia?

And why is the Church so hung up about sex, rather than other forms of sin - exploiting the poor in sweatshops, human trafficking, dumping pollution in third world countries, for instance?

freddo, you would be doing yourself quite a disservice by aligning yourself with dp's hateful brand of catholicism. she has used her religion to justify homophobia many times, and is a proud member of the bnp. wrt her racism, her catholicism manifests itself as islamophobia etcetcetc.

Aitch, I don't align myself with DP or anyone else on here, it's just that I've been told all that stuff you mention about her a lot and i've never actually seen any direct evidence of it from her for myself! I'll wait until she says something I disagree with before I start lambasting her if that's OK

Edam, why did God make sex enjoyable? because God is good and we wants us to enjoy ourselves! Any pleasurable thing can be abused though. He made eating enjoyable because we need to eat to live and life would be pretty miserable if eating was a painful experience... that doesn't mean he wants us to gorge ourselves and get fat though! The Church is not hung up about sex, it's just that people are hung up with what the church thinks about sex!! I have never thought nearly so much about the church's teaching on sex until I started joining these discussions on mumsnet I agree that the other forms of sin are much more worthy things to be thinking about...

i don't 'mention' her a lot, actually, i just tend to be on the same threads as her and do like to point up her hypocrisies as i come across them. we never did get an answer as to how it's okay for her to use contraception but for me to be a 'true catholic' i should hate homosexuals, for example.

and there is simply no question that she is a proud member of the bnp, she has posted her own threads urging people to vote for them. if you didn't see them, you mustn't have been here during the election.

it is strange that she doesn't like me mentioning her affection for the bnp, though...

I don't just mean you Aitch, but she generally does seem to have a band of people following her shouting 'BNP nazi' and such!! Did she really say that to be a true Catholic you should hate homosexuals???
As far as the BNP's concerned it's another of those things I'm wary of talking about because I don't know enough about it. I know the stereotypical view of course, 'racist nazi skinheads'! But I can't say I know for sure that any of their current policies are racist or homophobic or anything else. I wouldn't condem anyone for being a member of it because I don't know that it's any worse than any other political party, they all have their faults imo!

okay then bless you a thousand times but if you're going to say that you don't know if the bnp is racist then i don't think there's much point in continuing talking to you.

Sorry but I couldn't say for sure that the BNP is racist so doubt you'll reply to me I should read their policies properly one day I suppose but it does seem like a bit of a waste of time as I'm never going to vote for them anyway and really I'd just be reading them to decide whether I should join in with the DP condemnation!!

... and sorry, but I didn't join a thread about 'being really moved by the reaction of the faithful to the pope' based on my knowledge of the BNP party.... I avoid the political section because I don't have strong opinions in that area... I haven't found a political party who I think is worthy of supporting yet, mainly because I disagree with most of them on their pro-life issues. I've been told before by someone on here (a DP hater!) that if I'm pro-life I should actually be voting BNP which I find quite confusing

i am glad that you find this all so amusing and trivial. interesting that you are so engaged with your religion and yet when it comes to politics you don't want to engage at all. i think that is rather indicative of some of the biggest problems with the church, tbh.

oh and pleeaaaase don't characterise people as 'dp haters', again it trivialises her abhorrent views. make her stand up for what she believes in, which is racism and homophobia, backed up by her religious beliefs. or should i say your religious beliefs..? because all it takes is for good men and women to do nothing, freddo.

I do not find it amusing and trivial at all Aitch. I don't engage with politics because as I said my biggest interest is with pro-life issues, and there is no party with a chance of gaining power who has pro-life issues I support. I tend to vote for one of the boring main-stream parties because their issues in other areas are OKish. You probably do not share my views, but as I believe that an unborn baby is a human being, a defenceless child, I believe abortion is the biggest evil around. I feel COMPLETELY serious and passionate and fully engaged about politics in that area.

Most people on here are critical of the church for trying to become involved in politics, so are you saying that some of the biggest problems with the church are that it is not involved enough with politics?

I am genuinely sorry if I have given the impression that I find racism or homophobia amusing or trivial, I really do not.

Aitch, we have now gone full circle. Did my first posting this morning not show that my religious beliefs are not homophobic?
I can only say that I will not condemn DP for being racist or homophobic until I see some evidence of it! Isn't that fair enough? I've really gone on far too long about it anyway - what does it really matter what I think about DP anyway?!

sure, apology accepted, i can see that you are sincere. the politics that the church gets involved with is single issue stuff like pro-life, funnily enough. or condoms etc. i think the church should get back to the franciscan ideal of personal poverty and support for those living in poverty, on the ground, where it counts.

actually the person who told you about the BNP's pro-life stance is probably right, you know. i'd be a bit worried about that, personally. re abortion i do agree that the baby is a baby, but i nevertheless think that the mother has more rights when it comes down to it. if a mother, for example, needs chemo that will kill her unborn child, she should take it if that is what she wishes to do. the decision to abort a child is imo and in the experience of friends who have endured it, never taken lightly.

search the archives, freddo, there must be some of her bnp threads that weren't deleted.

Aitch as long as things like this are going on in the world I think it's vitally important that the church gets involved with pro-life politics.

A mother does have rights and I can definitely see the complications in cases like the one you mention. However, if you see abortion as murder of a baby (exactly the same in principal as the murder of a six month old for instance) there are veryt, very, very few cases when it can be justified. The fact remains that as the law stands a baby can aborted in this country for the simple reason that he or she will be born with a cleft palate... and that is what bothers me most in terms of my politics!

Anyway, I had better go as have spent far too much time here today (and this morning I vowed today would be a mumsnet free day - so much for that!!) Thank you for the discussions Aitch, I hope I have gone some way towards re-assurring you that in general catholics are not homophobes (I'll let DP speak for herself )

there is no question that that is a disgrace, freddo. i'm very surprised that people would consider an abortion for a cosmetic issue, tbh, and more surprised that they would be granted one.

er, freddo, did you miss the fact that i am a catholic?

Sorry Aitch I forgot

lol. yeah, i know one or two catholics, ya know... what with coming from a large family of them.

Just wanted to add that the SPUC website is great if you want to know more about pro-life issues, interesting bit here about abortion and disability.
... now i realy will go

Read your posts aitch...just can't get worked up enough to bother replying re; all the BNP/homophobia - hysteria/myths and total bollox...I'm guessing I just couldn't give a toss anymore....

och, what shite you talk, dp. at least have the courage of your convictions and stand up for what you believe in. just cos you don't want your nice catholic friends knowing what you're like.

I'm still roffling about dp's comment that 'I haven't mentioned the BNP since May'

Oh, and this one: 'Really painful sometimes, dealing with the ignorance'.

Dp you are a marvellous, if very depressing, satirical creation. Or you could be if you weren't actually real.

'And why is the Church so hung up about sex, rather than than other forms of sin - exploiting the poor in sweatshops, human trafficking, dumping pollution in third world countries, for instance?'

There are churches and christian communities [including Catholics] that are much more intereted in the latter. It is a great shame that the Vatican seems so right wing, corrupt and archaic, it seems as if little can be changed in this monolithic institution.

Zeph - yes, funny how the Pope wants all the Anglican church's homophobic and misogynistic priests - do hope he gets all of them. Such a huge irony though in the fact that so many of the Roman Catholic church's clergy are gay [even if mostly celibate].

I am not a catholic but I think he made some very good points about the aggressive forms of secularism that pervade the U.K and are just as oppressive in their intent as any religion.I think he made excellent points about the cult of celebrity too.
I think the child abuse scandal was terrible but paedophiles are predatory individuals, who made their way into any positions where they had access to children.Before proper child protection laws were in place, no doubt there were many who became social workers, teachers , scout leaders etc as well as priests just to gain access to children.
The majority of catholics are decent people and the majority of catholic priests too.I had a catholic education which I am very grateful for.Thank goodness we live in a country with true religious freedon although if the Humanist/secular lobby has its way we may not one day soon.
A shame this thread has descended largely into hate.That serves as no advertisment for a secular world view.

What is oppressive about agressive secularism? At worst it is irritating and reductive in its philosophy. You cannot possibly say that it is as oppressive as religious regimes in which women are forced into second class lives, for example.