Really moved by reaction of faithful to the Pope.

[bamboostalks]

Realise that there is a huge amount of negativity and vitriol on here atm with regards to the Pope's visit. However mumsnet is for all and there are plenty of Catholics who are pleased to see him here. This is a thread to celebrate this. I was really moved at the reaction of people in Glasgow yesterday. It was so emotional to see the babies hepd up for his blessing, he really did radiate a serene presence. Love his message as well, it is time to be proud to be a Christian. Hope all those going to see him have a fantastic time.

Yes, some priests have.

AP sums it up for me.

here

I used to like Stephen Fry (blackadder days) ....but he actually creeps me out now - has done for a while.

amanda platell is a ghastly piece of work, imo.

the problem with the catholic religion is that it all makes sense, it all follows through... the practise of homosexuality is wrong because it is not creative, the practise of sex outside marriage, or using contraception is wrong because it is not creative etc etc etc. this is all logical and spock-like, but it is not real or true.

i understand that the discussion will be about paedophilia, but imo the pope and the church does have blood on his hands wrt the contraception issue. as to the homophobia... well, it follows from the non-creative sex line... it's logical, but it doesn't either make it real or true.

we in the west are opting out of the bits we don't like, i doubt even homophobic daftpunk hasn't ever used contraception, so catholicism has become a bit of a pick and mix religion for a lot of us. but in the third world, with less educated, less wealthy populations, it's like here but a hundred or so years ago, and it is an abuse imo to condemn families to have lots of children or to get AIDs and die.

otoh, i can see why the pope will not want to start chipping away at the rules, if you like, because law is law, you can't fudge it. i think it's really difficult, tbh, and of course i see why people get very angry about it.

I like AP; she can spot a slimy hypocritical lefty a mile off.

hahaha. honestly, she is an idiot, and widely regarded as such by her peers.

Ah, they're just jealous of her success.

Re; the African problem(s). you can't seriously blame the pope. Africa has massive cultural problems, ie: large families are desired and not unwanted, plus men will simply not use condoms - they don't like them, so there's a limit to what the pope can actually do here. you have to be realistic.

i don't think i blamed him for africa's problems, did i? poor families having too many children isn't just an african problem, nor is AIDS. the church certainly isn't improving matters by insisting on no contraception, they know what goes on and they are choosing to ignore it, so they have blood on their hands. i take it you have used contraception, dp?

The pope is pro-life and preaches fidelity.

His view is; if you have self respect, and are faithful to your partner, you wont need condoms. sexually transmitted infections are a problem for a certain section of society, if the pope handed out condoms to these people he would be condoning their lifestyle. he will never do that. The pope wants people to lead a wholesome, good life, "spiritual" if you like. If you want to live the wild life, fine - go ahead, but don't blame the pope when it all goes wrong.

Y'know I have a few muslim friends on facebook, they haven't made a single anti-pope, anti-catholic comment, infact they have been supporting his visit. Religious people in the UK are getting sick of the atheists. Catholics are an easy target for the bigots, but if they try and take on the muslims/jews/sikhs, with their politically correct liberal bullshit, they will get a resounding - "up yours"

& yes, of course I use contraception; if I didn't I'd be pregnant every year.

daftpunk-
And what "justice" do you want for the victims? is there anything that could have been done to undo the damage? Priests could have been arrested, the pope could have been removed and a new one put in, but in what way would that have made everything ok? the Pope did what he thought was right at the time, he got it wrong, he's admitted that and has apologised.

that's got to be one of the most ignorant things i've read in a while.

what would you expect, justice wise, if it was YOUR child who had been raped? would a prison sentence be unreasonable because, well it wouldn't un-do it would it?

unreal.

yes, but it's such a damning view. 'if you have self-respect' damns those who don't, which isn't christian at all.

must point out that the top paragraph in my last post are daftpunks words. forgot to put it in quotation...

why assume that all opposing opinions come from atheists?

very grand assumption.

but grandstanding is what DP does. god forbid she should actually think about what is being said and take on the points of others...

it's extraordinary to me, dp, that you can say 'of course i use contraception' and not appear to tussle with that as a matter of conscience. don't you see that a lot of women in poverty in the third world don't have the 'of course' option. they are preached to that they should procreate, and offers of free condoms are rejected by governments, so they are stuck having babies every year and seeing them malnourished and worse because really they can't afford to keep them. this is the pope's fault because he will not relax about contraception. in effect, he is condemning people to death from Aids and malnutrition in various countries across the world.

Blinks;

I think you know what I meant. Nothing could undo the hurt involved....nothing. My parents are from Ireland, they've told me some awful stories about how nuns (not priests) treated children years ago, emotional and physical violence was common. was this an "Irish" problem more than a catholic one? (I remember reading an article in the Telegraph along those lines).

I have total sympathy for all the victims involved, but If the pope was arrested, he would probably take a million other people down with him - the Irish government, police force, and probably some of the parents...(this is just my opinion - as I can't believe other organisations weren't aware)....and as I said, nothing can undo the harm done, we just have to move forward and learn from it, acknowledging the catholic church had some complete bastards hiding in it.

I'm not sure what the future holds for the catholic church, millions of people have turned their backs, I suppose as we all become more sophisticated we need religion less and less, we no longer have the "fear of god" in us do we.

Aitch;
Read up on African culture, then come back to me.

so what's the point in having a justice system if some are immune from it?

Blinks, so what do people actually want from the Catholic church? Do they want the Pope put in prison? If so, on what grounds? Can you give me a specific example of something he has done that deserves a prison sentence? He may have made some MISTAKES in the past as most leadres do at one time or another. he has publicly apologised for them and is now doing his utmost to avoid anything similar happening ever again.

If people want to break away from the Catholic Church and start again then there is nothing to stop them doing that... personally that's not what I want to do (and I'm sure I'm not the only one)!

Aitch: "Don't you see that a lot of women in poverty in the third world don't have the 'of course' option. they are preached to that they should procreate'' - the Church does NOT encourage people to just have child after child without thinking about it, it asks people to use their judgement in deciding whether they can afford extra children financially/ emotionally etc... If it is unwise for them to have further children they can use natural family planning (which the church will teach anyone about who wants to know) and which DOES work.

Also Aitch, the church's and pope's stance is that people should not have sex outside marriage which i think is the opposite of ''condemning people to death from Aids and malnutrition in various countries across the world''

By not 'relaxing' on contraception as you put it he is having faith in the fact that people are capable of doing what god and the church asks them to do, rather than just assuming they are not up to it.

it's reasonable to expect anyone knowingly concealing paedophiles and not reporting allegations of child rape to the authorities to be placed under criminal investigation.

would you be defending him if he was a headmaster who knowingly covered up for staff members ritually abusing his pupils?

or would you accept an apology decades down the line and promote him to school governor?

I have been moved by the coming together of so many people to celebrate the Catholic faith. The pope is reminding our country to uphold it's Christian tradition and not let religion be severed from the state. I am both proud of my faith and of our country for its tolerence and fairness. I have no problem with the protesters and am thankful to live in a country where such freedom is our right. I am glad the support for the Pope outnumbered and far outshone those against him tho. There has been a great atmosphere in our Parish and at the dc's school. Last friday the whole school had a dress down day and all went in white and yellow colours. They all paid £1 with the proceeds going to the Pakistan relief fund. I'm glad they will have happy memories of the Pope's visit when they are grown.

I'm with you Wildmutt

Blinks, the Pope asked for internal investigation of these allegations, he did not ask that they be 'covered up' - he was taking the innocent until proven guilty approach. This was a mistake which he now acknowledges. He did not 'cover up' for anyone who was found guilty of committing abuse, apart from in one instance where the abuser (a priest) only had a few months left to live. In this case the man was not reported to the authorities as quickly as he should have been for the reason that he was dying. Again, this was probably a mistake.

Blinks;

I haven't got all the answers, I don't know exactly what went on and why certain decisions were made. All I know is the pope has apologised and procedures are now in place to ensure this doesn't happen again. and tbh, you sound like the sort of person who wont be happy until the pope is hung drawn and quartered.
( an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind)

you don't have a clue as to what kind of person i am.

No, you're right. I don't. I'm just going on what I've seen here.

what book would you have me read on african culture, dp? one from the bnp publishing arm, if you assume that all of africa has one culture.

freddo, i'm not sure that the message going out in the third world to women is as finessed as you would like it to be. in an otherwise rather shit documentary from Peter Tatchell he interviewed families who felt that their priests were saying exactly that they should have children and that god would provide.

Jeeze (sigh)

You have managed to bring up my alleged homophobia and the BNP, all within the space of a few posts. Do you never tire of it?