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Original poster

Really moved by reaction of faithful to the Pope.

443 replies

bamboostalks · 17/09/2010 08:29

Realise that there is a huge amount of negativity and vitriol on here atm with regards to the Pope's visit. However mumsnet is for all and there are plenty of Catholics who are pleased to see him here. This is a thread to celebrate this. I was really moved at the reaction of people in Glasgow yesterday. It was so emotional to see the babies hepd up for his blessing, he really did radiate a serene presence. Love his message as well, it is time to be proud to be a Christian. Hope all those going to see him have a fantastic time.

OP posts:
Original poster
bamboostalks · 18/09/2010 07:54

There is no defence of the cover up, much less a coherent one. It is not possible to defend that behaviour. I would never attempt to do so, that would beyond insulting to the victims. This visit is about people on a faith journey, struggling with their own faith on a day to day basis. The church is os far from perfect but the interaction of individuals living as best they can to be like Christ will always touch me.

OP posts:
FreddoBaggyMac · 18/09/2010 08:04

Blinks, I do not see that that document has any 'strict instructions on covering sex abuse scandals'. The pope has said over and over again that he wants such things brought out into the open.

mamatomany · 18/09/2010 10:02

Blinks Everybody believed in those days that pedophiles and homosexuals could be cured.
We now acknowledge that people are born homosexual and yet still try to cure pedophiles maybe it's time to learn from history and throw away the key after the first pedophiliac offense.

ZephirineDrouhin · 18/09/2010 10:24

Very uncomfortable with the bracketing together of homosexuality and paedophilia in that post mamatomany.

mamatomany · 18/09/2010 10:37

Sorry i didn't mean it like that at all, simply that it would seem you are born as you are, there's no cure for somebody's sexuality.

blinks · 18/09/2010 11:28

the document was updated and resent 5 years ago

Aitch · 18/09/2010 11:35

it seems SO unsatisfactory to say that they were different times, but they MUST have been so very different... the stories in the press, of parents who basically let the priests continue abusing their children, i mean, how was that even possible? but it happened... i cannot get my head round that at all. i can't believe for a second that my grandparents would have gone along with that sort of behaviour, or their parents before them... but who knows?

it seems no different from what we would regard as 'savage' worship behaviour where virgins were sacrificed for their gods, in fact it seems entirely the same to me.

i mention this not at all to excuse the priests or anyone who sought to cover it up, of course they should have lifted the phone and called the police... but they didn't. so should the teachers who were told about it, so should the people in care homes, the parents of non-catholic children abused by scout leaders etc etc etc, but they demonstrably didn't. it's just so WEIRD i think, and impossible for me to understand, really.

so for me, i guess it's what the church community does now, to put a full stop to these abuses, that's what's important. the church is the community of worshippers rather than ratzinger, or even jp2, for whom i had no fondness. where next for the church is the really big question.

sfxmum · 18/09/2010 11:52

regarding the silence, it occurred to me yesterday while listening to the coverage on the radio
there were 2 people from the church talking in separate interviews, they both seemed to have been briefed to talk about the loss of sense of community to explain the decline in church attendance, obviously community is a big theme these days, and of course everyone likes the idea of cosy warm nurturing close community but in a way the fact that people were so interconnected, that their standing in said community was so important, being seen to upset the balance would seriously raise the stakes ,even when it comes to protecting your own
I think people fool themselves into thinking pretty much anything if it means you will still belong and fit in

daftpunk · 18/09/2010 12:17

Agree aitch, 100%, & yes, it's where we go from here.

I think it's important that people are aware of the child protection procedures in place now (and have actually been in place for some yrs)

we are one of the few, (if not only) organisations which make public any abuse allegations.

It's also worth remembering that in the last 40 years, less than half of 1% of catholic priests in England and Wales have had allegations of child abuse made against them.

here

The above article is worth reading.

Aitch · 18/09/2010 12:30

how many catholic priests are there in england and wales? when people put forward percentage figures i always smell a bit of a fudge, but i might be wrong. and the key thing is that the church appears to have harboured these men rather than flinging them out immediately, which is very hard to take. not to mention the fact that in a career that gives him status and access to children, a priest can ruin the lives of hundreds of children (and in so doing create more potential abusers, sadly) cannot be underestimated.

daftpunk · 18/09/2010 13:29

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

I'm with you on that one, but think they're reliable in this case.

Right.....I'm off to catch a train, will hopefully see the pope.

ColdComfortFarm · 18/09/2010 13:33

The Pope should be in prison, not lecturing anyone else on morality. It is breathtaking to hear him, with his vicious abuse of others ('nazis' ffs) when he headed one of the biggest child abuse networks the world has ever seen.

StrictlyTory · 18/09/2010 13:49

Yes that's the Catholics Churches only aim... we are actually only concerned with how many children we can get our grubby hands on Hmm

Oh and prison? Don't make me laugh. For what exactly?

ColdComfortFarm · 18/09/2010 14:03

Oh, I don't know, what about obstructing the course of justice for a start? Being an accessory to child rape? Just silly, petty stuff like that.

StrictlyTory · 18/09/2010 20:54

Grow up. If the police had a case against him personally he would be in prison, you think him being the Pope would stop them if they actually had any evidence against him?

ItsGrimUpNorth · 18/09/2010 21:01

Oh there's all sorts of things you can do to avoid arrest/prison etc. Especially for child rape. And colluding with child rapists.

Look at Roman Polanski for example.

Grow up? The RCC should start taking massive responsibility for the enormous damage its cohorts have done to people's lives when they were children.

The pope should grow up and stop bleating meaningless apologies for the f*cking of children by priests over decades.

Grow up. Angry

Those victims of child abuse have grown up and they are demanding answers. They are demanding more than empty apologies. The RCC hid paedophiles. It's revolting.

StrictlyTory · 18/09/2010 21:11

OMG Roman Polanski actually drugged and raped a CHILD. You have not one tiny pathetic shred of evidence that the Pope has EVER done anything remotely like that.

How dare you place an actual rapist in the same sentence as the Pope Shock it actually beggars belief.

Original poster
bamboostalks · 18/09/2010 21:27

Really enjoyed the vigil tonight, so prayerful and inspiring. I think many people will feel re invigorated by this visit. Again, I have to say that the Sky coverage has been stunning. So special to see so many young people involved too.

How did you get on Daftpunk?

OP posts:
daftpunk · 18/09/2010 21:35

CCF;

re; abuse of children.

our government have their own issues on this, you must know about all UK children shipped out to Australia to basically rot.

here

Perhaps our politicians should have been thrown in jail?

daftpunk · 18/09/2010 21:39

Hi bamboostalks,

didn't get to see him unfortunately.....but was good just to be there.

ItsGrimUpNorth · 18/09/2010 21:47

The pope is the head of the RCC that actively colluded to hide paedophiles.

The pope, afaik, has done nothing in particular to ensure these paedophiles face justice. I'd be delighted to be corrected on this.

In the words of the good samaritan, walk on by love and you're colluding. He's done nothing.

It beggars belief that this went on for so long with so many CHILD victims and still people cannot accept the culpability of the heads of the RCC.

blinks · 19/09/2010 01:20

he did more than nothing in particular.

as a cardinal, he dispatched instructions to parishes telling them to put the church before alleged victims, not to pass details on to authorities and to move accused priests onto new parishes, thus increasing the amount of abuse victims.

anyone else would be prosecuted.

i want to remind posters defending him that many of these victims have taken their own lives, such was their pain and trauma.

how would you feel if that was your child and nothing was done, save for a too-late apology. why does he feel ashamed and full of sorrow NOW but didn't feel it THEN?

damage control is what this is and is stinks.

ItsGrimUpNorth · 19/09/2010 08:37

And yes, there are many bodies who have been involved in child abuse - list them if you wish - but right now we are discussing the RCC.

There is no outrage. People just seem grateful for his apology. What's to stop it happening again? There's no justice for child rape victims.

daftpunk · 19/09/2010 09:12

ItsGrimUpNorth;

Are you actually reading any of the posts on here?

The cathoilc church is now one of the safest places for children due to all the child protection procedures in place.

And what "justice" do you want for the victims? is there anything that could have been done to undo the damage? Priests could have been arrested, the pope could have been removed and a new one put in, but in what way would that have made everything ok? the Pope did what he thought was right at the time, he got it wrong, he's admitted that and has apologised.

Aitch · 19/09/2010 09:16

i thought that some of the priests had been in court? i think the mood is such, surely, that those people coming forward now will be able to have their day in court and seek justice? there is no question that what happened in the past is an absolute shocking disgrace (and i have heard such varying accounts of ratzinger's personal involvement with a cover up that it is hard to know what to believe, on a recent radio documentary he was credited as having been the first person to start the clean up) but for all of the victims of abuse whose abusers have since died there will, sadly, be no justice. that's foster carers, scout leaders, pe teachers, children's home carers etc etc etc. it really seems like in the course of my lifetime so much regarding sex has turned upside down, we have this increasing obvious sexualisation of young children (hence let girls be girls etc) but in actual fact having sex with children is much less acceptable. i think it was rife, absolutely rife, in the past, and hope to god that we as a society have swung against it to such an extent that it cannot be widespread again.