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Doggy Dilemma: grumpy old retriever now untrustworthy with DS (3yrs). What to do?

169 replies

Time2Hibernate · 20/10/2009 13:42

We have a retriever who has always been fairly dominant all his life, and so we've had to keep the upper hand to reinforce his position in the family. He was fine with DS when he was born, but as he has got older, so he has become very grumpy and unpredictable with other dogs, people and specifically DS.

When the dog was about 11 months (ish) he used to bite quite a bit. On one occaision he bit and wouldn't let go of my DH on the arm as he tried to put him on the lead, fortunatley it was winter and it was through a thick wax jacket. It took both DH and me to release the dog's jaws. This was prior to him being castrated which happened swiftly after the incident. He calmed down a lot with no repetitions of biting.

The dog is very big - lying down stretched out he's the same length as my DH 6'2" and weighs a hearty, all muscle, 7 stone. He knocks me off my feet if he barges past.

Couple of examples:

DS who has been playing, minding his own buisness. I was in the garden with DS who momentarily walked down the side of the house between the wall and fence to get his trike. I hear DS get distressed calling me I rush to the side of the house (which is feet away) to find the dog pinning DS to the corner, staring him out, rigid and fixed. I called the dog who fortunatley backed off immediatley, slunk past me looking guilty, and I put it immediatley into a room, away from us all.

DS wanting to come into the kitchen from outside. Dog walks to doorway and stands deliberatley in the way and then faces DS off, who is oblivious to doggy NVCs and says to the dog: excuse me...may I come through? Starts to push through and the dog's face goes towards his head. I didn't see the jaws open but the dog wasn't going to let him through and I was able to grab the dog and push DS away.

These situations occur in seconds and thank heavens, again, I was on hand to see what was happening and prevent anything serious.

I have talked to the vet the dog is grumpy, unpredictable and more difficult to manage than ever, who just said that there was nothing they could do. "Dogs get 'cantankerous' (sp?) in their old age and can revert to type as they were in their 'teens' and that's just the way it is". The dog has been checked out for various ailments and nothing evident.

I'm in a real quandary. He is unpredicatable and I have lost trust in him. If I want to keep him then he has to be shut away from children, animals and people as he just suddenly runs at them. Having a 3 yr old in the house in areas that he can't go because the dog is around is awful too. It's like having and open and closed prison and I'm the warden.

I have tried everything I can think of: training, retraining,feeding after us (which is the norm) and he's taken out for two good walks a day etc and the dog is geniuinely a grumpy, beligerent old dog, who knows how to be good but chooses when to be.

Unfortunatley, the times that he picks on DS are becoming more frequent and I'm really concerned that the 'what if' scenario is going to become a reality.

I'm so close to taking him to the vets to ask for him to be put to sleep, as I want to remember him as the nice dog we once had, without regret. But my vet is not pro putting animals to sleep so I don't know what to do or what to say.

Suggestions??

OP posts:
moosemama · 20/10/2009 19:09

Make that 'contacting a behaviourist at the earliest opportunity would definitely be sensible'. I really must learn to preview.

LittleRedCar · 20/10/2009 19:11

x post Moosemama - yes, I believe I suggested contacting a behaviourist in my first post

Gracie123 · 20/10/2009 19:13

But this is my point littlered. I don't assume they all are, but I respect that they all could. I actually love dogs. I got one when I was a teenager, who still lives with my parents, but I would never want her to live with me and my toddler.

I don't know your experience unless you post it. I only told you mine because I want you to understand that it could be a very serious situation. I just don't think it should be taken lightly because I have seen the devastation it can cause.

I'm sorry if you felt I belittled your experience. I only assumed it wasn't very traumatic because you didn't state that it was. Obviously for someone who still suffers from an attack over 23 years ago, it is sometimes difficult for me to accept someone has been through the same thing when the post simply says 'I was bitten once'. For all I know that could have just been a puppy mouthing. I'm sure it wasn't though, or you wouldn't have mentioned it.

DailyMailNameChanger · 20/10/2009 19:13

It doesn't sound right, there is too much info about some things and not enough about others.

Op, assuming you are around, contact a behaviourist asap. Keep your ds and dog seperate in the mean time. I have no idea if your dog is dangerous or not only a behaviourist can assess it properly. You are obviously not happy and that will feed to your dog, if he is insecure it is likely he will become more so with any tension present in the home.

moosemama · 20/10/2009 19:15

So you did. I think we are singing from the same song sheet really.

To be honest, if I was the OP I don't think I would have come back in the middle of all that though. With such diametrically (sp?) opposed opinions on the thread, she probably feels that whatever she says she'll be wrong.

LittleRedCar · 20/10/2009 19:18

It's okay, I do understand - more than you might think I just really don't want to get into 'well, I had to have x stitches' - I think that's pointless.

I would never suggest something like this be taken lightly - I suggested a qualified behaviourist. Equally, I do not think a dog deserves to be put to sleep without a fair trial, iyswim.

Does that make sense?

Gracie123 · 20/10/2009 19:20

I think your right. OP is either scared off, or just wanted a fight in the first place. Sorry to get so heated

Thanks for the biccies

LittleRedCar · 20/10/2009 19:20

x post Moosemama - have a biccie.

I did also question the OP's depth of canine behaviour knowledge, tis true, but only in response to others saying that the OP clearly knew her dog better.

Dogs - like humans - can be misunderstood Especially with fecking Cesar Millan about...

LittleRedCar · 20/10/2009 19:21

x post with Gracie - no, you weren't heated. Sorry if I upset you.

LittleRedCar · 20/10/2009 19:23

Mine was a proper bite, btw - not puppy mouthing.

Ok, I'll shut up now

slimeoncrazydemon · 20/10/2009 19:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

moosemama · 20/10/2009 19:29

Ooo thank you. Don't mind if I do.

Aaargh Cesar Milan - don't get me started!

LRC, I agree dogs, can be misunderstood but 11 years is a long time to live with a someone (canine or human) without learning, even subconsciously to read their body language to a certain extent and if she was worried, even if she turns out the be wrong fundamentally the advice (on which I now believe we all agree) would be the same.

I think we all agree DailyMailNameChanger summed it up nicely, contact a qualified behaviourist asap, keep dc and dog separate until the situation is sorted one way or another - nuff said!

LittleRedCar · 20/10/2009 19:29

You're too late for the biccies, Slimey.

Did the green chicken put the fuzzy key on your laptop today?

LittleRedCar · 20/10/2009 19:30

Yes, nice work, DMNC

DailyMailNameChanger · 20/10/2009 19:32
minimu · 20/10/2009 19:33

What I would just like to say is that there are options.

We haven't see the dog the OP obviously is very concerned and needs professional help. Vets are great but not trained in the same way as a good behaviourist.
So please

Seek the advice of a behaviourist. - they may say the problem is not treatable or they may say minor behaviour changes will alter all difficult behaviour
But this does need to be done before the dog is rehomed or put to sleep (maybe needlessly)

If the behaviourist does think the situation is irreversible she may even be able to help rehome the dog or advise the vet with a view to PTS but I do feel there are many stages that can be tried first.

Of course that is without putting any children at risk at all.

DailyMailNameChanger · 20/10/2009 19:33

Lol - I just said what you lot have already said

But it is always nice to get recognition for other peoples efforts

LittleRedCar · 20/10/2009 19:33

Slimey ate them all

minimu · 20/10/2009 19:33

What I would just like to say is that there are options.

We haven't see the dog the OP obviously is very concerned and needs professional help. Vets are great but not trained in the same way as a good behaviourist.
So please

Seek the advice of a behaviourist. - they may say the problem is not treatable or they may say minor behaviour changes will alter all difficult behaviour
But this does need to be done before the dog is rehomed or put to sleep (maybe needlessly)

If the behaviourist does think the situation is irreversible she may even be able to help rehome the dog or advise the vet with a view to PTS but I do feel there are many stages that can be tried first.

Of course that is without putting any children at risk at all.

minimu · 20/10/2009 19:34

Blimey how has that happened I didn't mean to post twice or sound like I was preaching!!!! forgive me

LittleRedCar · 20/10/2009 19:35

You don't get double biccies for saying the same thing twice, minimu.

Uh-oh.

Doesn't work like that.

moosemama · 20/10/2009 19:36

Ah DMNC I have a slice of battenberg cake I can offer you? Its supposed to be for the dcs but I have a feeling they may never know we had it.

DailyMailNameChanger · 20/10/2009 19:36

Hah!!!

I don't believe you!

slimeoncrazydemon · 20/10/2009 19:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

LittleRedCar · 20/10/2009 19:36

I sense a Battenberg faction forming...

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