Puppy needing surgery - would you pay?

[Kijaji]

Our current situation is we have a 12 week old puppy who has a grade 4 heart murmur (picked up at 8 week vaccinations, was checked at birth and everything was fine), he’s awaiting further tests but worse case scenario it could cost us £5K to operate, if you had the money would you do it for a puppy you’ve only had 5 weeks but mostly everyone’s attached too and loves?

King Charles spaniel? AFAIK they are very prone to heart problems.

But I agree with pps that your breeder is decidedly dodgy! 7 weeks is far too young!

Make this make sense please: any reputable breeder would have their puppies vaccinated and insured before letting them go. New owner then keeps up vaccinations and insurance.

How does each are need a different vaccine? Can you explain this please?

It sounds like you bought from a backstreet breeder. Any chance of returning the puppy to the breeder?

it all sounds very dodgy OP.
As said many times - a well respected breeder will not let a pup go before until least 8-9 weeks.
A decent breeder will have given you a pet insurance policy to cover you for at least 2-4 weeks.
Usually vaccine 1 is done as well.
Plus of course health testing scores from mum and dad and the pedigree papers.

If a breeder could not supply this - alarm bells would ring.

Another feckless human who's happy to support the disgusting back street dog trade. Can't people read any more. Don't they ever watch the news or do research. It's all online anyway ffs. Poor little mite doesn't stand a chance does he.

I had two spaniels with a heart murmur, both lived to a ripe old age and died of other things.

Many people do get unvaccinated pups (should be older than 7 weeks though).

If breeders get the first vaccine done they're often incompatible with the vaccines in a different area / vet's practice, so it's often easier to start the course at your own vet.

Puppies should have had a vet check and microchip before being sold though.

You don’t have to be an ‘extremist’ or equate a dog’s life to a human’s life to care about a dog’s welfare. Amazingly, some of us are capable of caring about humans AND animals. I suspect you’re not capable of caring much about either.

Many people buy unvaccinated puppies and start the course at a vet practice of their choice.

If breeders get the first vaccines done they're often incompatible with vets in a different area or practice so then they pups have to wait and start again, so it's easier just to start the course with the vet they've chosen.

I’ve never heard of this as advice. It should be easy enough to call the vet ahead of time to ensure they have the correct brand of vaccination in stock. Sounds like the sort of thing a dodgy breeder would say to avoid having to pay out for the first vaccinations themselves.

Most heart murmurs resolve itself as the puppy gets older
mine had a grade 3 - gone by the time he was 1 year old

And most likely a French or English bulldog. Or pug.

The key word in your post being 'reputable'.

You either get insurance or be prepared to pay thousands every now and then.

Our dog had a heart murder on his 1st vet check up , never picked up again , no issues & he's 11 now x

We've used the same breeder for our two dogs, who are three years apart (now 6 and 3). This did change between the first and second. The pups still get an 8 week check and are microchipped, but didn't get their first vaccination until we brought them to our vet on the second day. Ours did come with kennel club insurance, however, and a breeder who would have been happy to take the puppy back.

I’m assuming the puppy has had a scan to confirm the pathology present. Otherwise the vet wouldn’t have been able to suggest treatment. Heart murmur isn’t a diagnosis in itself.

Perfectly good breeders let puppies go at 8 weeks (which is the legal minimum). That's the normal age for all but the toy breeds.

They also let puppies go unvaccinated, with the expectation that the new owner will be at the vet's that day or the next.

And sometimes c-sections are unexpected, unavoidable and the best outcome (and thr bitch should not be bred again). So it is possible that the OP bought the puppy from a perfectly decent breeder - who should at least contribute to any operation needed.

So it could just be bad luck.

However, with some breeds, c-sections are pretty much standard, and IMHO this is a massive welfare issue.

The c-section, combined the puppy being sold at 7 weeks, suggest that OP didn't do her homework.

Absolutely YES I would pay for that if it turned out it was needed. That little puppy just has one chance at life and you are 100% responsible now for making it the best little life possible. Doesn't matter whether you've had him 5 weeks or 5 years.

It’s not about the insurance or taking puppies back. There’s been a move toward puppies going their new homes much closer to 12 weeks than 8 weeks. If the first vaccinations aren’t done until 12 weeks, this massively increases the period during which the puppy remains susceptible to infection. It also delays the point at which the puppy can be fully socialised which might lead to behaviour issues. It’s not something I could recommend.

My DD has got a cocker spaniel with a grade 6 heart murmur. They chose to try medication instead of surgery and she's now nearly 4 and doing brilliantly. She takes a human drug (atenolol) obviously through the vets and it costs them £17 a month. She goes to the specialist vet around once a year for a check up/heart scan and her grade hasn't changed at all during this time.

The surgery has a high mortality rate so that's why DD and her BF chose to try the medical route first. They got her at 16 weeks because the owner (it was a family not a breeder) was concerned that it was too much for her living with 2 other dogs - and DD was happy to take the risk on with good insurance.

Our breeder lets them go at 9-10 weeks, but our dogs are retrievers, and that seems to be pretty much the norm. And, yes, I understand your point, mine was that lots of very reputable breeders have moved towards not giving them their first vaccination, so that in and of itself isn't alarming.

The amount of incorrect information is laughable. No most murmurs do not ‘resolve by themselves’ and the few that do are low grade. Not grade 4. And just because your old dog had a murmur and was fine bears absolutely no relevance to a puppy with an extremely loud murmur.
The pup probably has a PDA. Which without surgery to fix it will cause heart failure and death within a few months to a year at best.
Unfortunately you’ve been sold a defective puppy by an irresponsible breeder. No insurance. Not vaccinated. Homed at 7 weeks. All these point towards an irresponsible unethical breeder.

If I had the money I’d probably pay. But you’re within your rights to return the puppy to the breeder for a full refund. The breeder will most likely put it to sleep.

Any breeder that allows dogs to go at 7 weeks isn't a good breeder and that should've been your warning sign to walk away from them at the beginning. If ever in this situation again, do your homework? Or get a rescue.

Now it's done of course and you've become attached. The breeder I presume has no insurance to cover any of this, so you're stuck with 4 choices. Wait and see, pay for the operation or give the dog back to the breeder or PTS. Harsh reality.

Because the heart murmur has been flagged before your insurance kicks in you won’t be able to claim later on for treatment for the heart . Some insurance will cover if there is a period of two years when no treatment was needed and if the murmur resolved itself but be careful as changing could flag it up as a pre-existing condition. I would question your vet about quoting £5000 to fix a murmur that could resolve itself. My dog was from a rescue who rescued her from horrendous conditions with a back street breeder . She didn’t contract her heart murmur until she was about 11 and with medication she lived until she was just shy of 14.
Did you meet the mother of the puppy and see them interacting together? Personally I would only ever adopt but there is a well known campaign Where Is Mum? I really feel if you can you ought to save this puppy’s life, report the breeder and if you don’t have the funds find a vet who will let you pay off over a period of time or ask a decent rescue if they can take the puppy on and pass on to the rescue as much money as you can. A heart murmur is not a reason to euthanise the puppy and I hope a decent vet would refuse you and help find a rescue.

You’re right it’s not a legal requirement to have insurance, and thats your choice. But if you choose not to then you should have the financial means to pay for a worst case scenario. Dogs aren’t just toys to throw away when they break, people take pet ownership to lightly. If you even have to think about if you’d pay money to save their life then you don’t deserve a dog, it should be a no brainer!