To ask you to sign this petition to tax wealth rather than attacking the most vulnerable members of society?

[QuestionableMouse]

https://www.change.org/p/tax-wealth-don-t-cut-disability-support

I've signed it.

If the cuts do ahead thousands of people are going to be badly affected (me included due to long COVID which has left me chroniclly unwell)

What does killing disabled people do? Because that's what will happen if the cuts go ahead.

What exactly am I being entitled about please?

I don't eat processed food in the main apart from the odd fish fingers or sausages because I can't afford to buy it.

I have tried to make GF bread at home and despite being a decent baker pre diagnosis it turns out as a lump of disgusting paste. The flour might be cheaper but when you add in the additional ingredients like pysilium husk it certainly isn't.

Also - I am chronically ill. Some days I just want a slice of toast and a cup of tea. I don't think there's anything particularly entitled about that.

You don't think any disability benefits reforms are needed?

This is two wrongs don’t make a right territory.

Have you not understood, ‘wealth taxes’ don’t work longterm (and often not short term either) and would almost certainly leave the country poorer and needing to cut services further in the future.

I'd say people who rely on benefits because they physically can't work are pretty vulnerable.

It's a horrible way to live, at the mercy of a government who don't seem to care at all.

Signed. Those with assets of over £10 million should be supporting the society we live in; I paid tax all my working life without complaining as it makes life fairer for everyone. People hoarding their wealth shouldn't benefit from life in the UK. If they want to f*#k off abroad let them. It's pure selfishness.

No.

Signed

You are literally looking to bite the hand that feeds you. You need to think about all of this very differently. Until recently in historical terms, you and your family would have been responsible for your survival, disabled or not. There is no inalienable obligation for the state to look after anyone. The welfare state is a human construct and many countries have nothing like this in place. It only exists through public consent and if you push people too far then they will opt out and turn against it. It really is as simple as that. The whole thing will come crashing down and where will that leave the disabled?

Cuts and reforms need to be made.

Honestly don't waste your time engaging. What a ridiculous person that poster was

Omg are you seriously suggesting OP should be grateful the rich pay taxes at all? Since they are receiving disability benefits? Really? Why are you even loving in the UK if that's your thinking? Surely you'd be better off in Singapore where you can hoard you money and you don't have to pay into society

Well, a lot of people and the government don't agree with you.

Which isn't the same as wanting disabled people to die.

People keep talking about capital flight but is that proven? A good number of countries have a wealth tax in various guises, whether on wealth or assets including both Norway and Switzerland. France, Netherlands, Belgium and Italy all tax certain assets. Is there any data on how these countries have suffered?

And whoever bandied 45% round as a tax rate is insane. For comparison Spain’s starts at 0.16% but it’s mostly around 1% and often doesn’t include primary residences.

But of course Mumsnetters with a few grand savings in the bank will become hysterical and start asserting that the government are about to steal half their money.

I agree with this.

The beer analogy is patronising. There are some brilliant fiscal brains in this country and it shouldn't be beyond the wit of our government to source them to find a fair and workable tax solution. I could bear a penny on the £ extra tax, other people couldn't - and some wouldn't notice £££ on the £ but that doesn't mean that we should look at a blunt instrument that's actually more of a sanction on the super-wealthy as we need them. If they pay taxes then they're as welcome as anyone.

Starbucks though... How did that ever get allowed to happen in the first place? Paying no tax shouldn't be an option. We have brilliant legal brains here too.

The government could correct this, deftly, if it really wanted to.

Are you suggesting that OP shouldn't be grateful to those that are paying into the system and ultimately funding her? Do you think she has an unalienable right to be funded by other people?

I personally live in the UK because I'm broadly happy with the current taxation regime as an individual and support the idea of having a welfare state. I am a high rate tax payer so pay more tax than most people and I think that's fair. I could move abroad and make the same amount of money but pay a lot less tax. I am alarmed though about a growing sense of entitlement that people seem to have around spending other people's money and an assumption that the tax payer must fund the welfare state no matter how much costs have escalated. Everyone will have their own personal thresholds where they simply don't want to pay anymore money in to receive so little back. I am not a million miles away from this and ultimately like lots of other people with money and means will look to move abroad rather than allow the state to tax me into oblivion to fund other people.

I'm not saying that it was a good thing but there used to be an idea that claiming benefits was a bit shameful. Which was a terrible attitude.

And benefits were for the most in need.

But the pendulum swang too far in the opposite direction and became all about what people are 'entitled to' and not what they need.

So you have people saying they won't work because they'd only be a few quid better off a month than claiming UC.

A poster on MN a few months ago was taking in £3700 a month in benefits because of a child on DLA meaning no benefit cap and full housing benefit etc as her rent was almost £2000 a month.

PIP was designed primarily for the physically disabled who had extra costs caused by their disability. But is now overwhelmingly claimed for mental health and ND conditions. Some of whom are in work and some who aren't, many of whom are using it as additional income and putting it into savings as it's non-means tested so you can be a millionaire and claim it.

My Grandmother bless her has recently gone into a care home and hasn't worked since the 1960s but with her widows pension, state pension and PIP has managed to accumulate 100k in savings because her outgoings were minimal in comparison to her benefits.

I'm sure that will get eaten up in less than a year by care home fees. And private patients are effectively subsiding those funded by the state as the same bed/ care/ home can cost twice as much when charged to a private patient as they charge they LA

Source: I work in this sector

I'm really surprised by how many people are arguing against this. It's completely reasonable to tax wealth rather than take money from disabled people.

Thanks for posting OP.

It’s unreasonable to do it if the result is a lower tax take. Which is what wealth taxes generally achieve.

Then another solution needs to be found. It's not ok to slash disability benefits like this.

Why have you signed the petition then? It is quite specific in its request for a wealth tax, yet you don't seem to have done any research about what the implications of this would be. I imagine you did so because you are so opposed to disability benefits being reduced that you would sign up to almost any taxation policy as long as it didn't obviously adversely impact you. This is why our economy is in dire straits and people voted for Labour and Brexit. The promise of easy solutions overrides common sense

This.
I always find it interesting that there's a 'you have more money than me?! I am entitled to demand I get some of your money and therefore have a say in your income'... swiftly followed by....'HOW DARE ANYONE QUESTION WHAT I SPEND MY BENEFITS ON!!! ITS MY MONEY AND NOONE HAS A RIGHT TO KNOW HOW MUCH I HAVE OR WHAT I DO WITH IT, ITS MINE!!'

So that’s what we should be talking about.

I agree. The solution is that more people should be working, and part timers should be working more. Far too many people who could work, and could work more hours, choosing not to, either because they'd lose benefits or they've enough money from savings etc (not properly taxed) so don't need to work more.

This! Or the 'I can only work term time 10-2 because I care too much about my children to abandon them with strangers'.