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Petitions and activism

To ask you to sign this petition to tax wealth rather than attacking the most vulnerable members of society?

320 replies

QuestionableMouse · 15/04/2025 18:22

https://www.change.org/p/tax-wealth-don-t-cut-disability-support

I've signed it.

If the cuts do ahead thousands of people are going to be badly affected (me included due to long COVID which has left me chroniclly unwell)

Sign the Petition

TAX WEALTH – DON'T CUT DISABILITY SUPPORT

https://www.change.org/p/tax-wealth-don-t-cut-disability-support

OP posts:
qbqbq · 15/04/2025 19:14

I won’t sign it. Be careful what you wish for.

Whilst I don’t support cuts in support for disabled people, I don’t support a wealth tax either. The two should shouldn’t [edit] be thought of as one or the other.

The highest earners are already keeping us afloat. Google tells me that 28% of all income tax collected is paid by the top 1%. It would be so easy for them to bugger off abroad. There are companies (I think I saw them advertised here even) that will sort it all out for you. And these people are obviously highly employable. I do get that the very wealthy with over £10 million of assets, are a much smaller number, apparently 0.04% of us. I assume it’d be even easier for them to bugger off abroad. Why would they stick around if they are going to be pickpocketed?

Most people have given this wealth tax policy zero thought aside from thinking that “get money from rich people” and “it won’t be me paying”.

No I am not one of them!

How about a wealth tax of 1% on people who have £100k or more of assets instead of £10m? With your house and pension pot, millions upon millions of us would fall into that category - bet it wouldn’t be so popular then. I’d be more likely to support it if it was at £100k rather than £10m. I still wouldn’t support it, not just because I would be liable, but because the top people would be liable for so much that they’d bugger off anyway and we’d be even more screwed than we are now.

I am nearly 50. I went to university with people who have now emigrated. Hong Kong, USA, Singapore…these people aren’t ever coming back. They are all high earners with loads of skills. There is nothing for them here.

Meadowfinch · 15/04/2025 19:16

LoyalAquaHiker · 15/04/2025 19:00

Oh come on you know why.
The alright jacks will get it in the end. They've got the pretty little house they bought because they got lucky with age and health but what they don't realize is that the reason their local council isn't cutting their hedge anymore is that they're spending ALL their money on social care. And that's where all this money will go when disabled people end up homeless or at risk because of poor mental health.

I thought the rich being targeted have £10 million plus...... That's hardly someone getting lucky and buying a house in the 70s.

Those with ten million plus will be business founders, performers, financial traders, Times 250 CEOs etc. Do we want to drive those people abroad?

Covid was always going to have to be paid for. That was inevitable. I'd prefer a penny on the rate of income tax and the burden shared between all of us. I'm on a mid-salary so that would probably be to my disadvantage but it would be more widely palatable.

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · 15/04/2025 19:22

QuestionableMouse · 15/04/2025 18:39

So you're happy for disabled people to die due to the cuts?

Because that's what's going to happen.

@QuestionableMouse , ohh what a very unpleasant response! That’s not the intention at all. The idea is to help those who are able back into work and support is to be provided. I’m sure you will agree no one should be claiming benefits if they can work and pay taxes? There is also an intention of disincentivising those who choose to languish on benefits at the expense of the working people. I was a bit surprised to read on an earlier post someone quite openly state that they weren’t prepared to work because they were considerably better off claiming various benefits. That cannot be permitted. Hopefully if all those who are frankly taking the piss are firmly encouraged to get off their lazy backsides and get a job then there should be more money available for those who are in genuine need. I dare say there are very many people who know they have been scrounging who are concerned and that doesn’t bother me one bit. I hope that the government gets a move on and provides reassurance to the legitimate claimants.

Meadowfinch · 15/04/2025 19:24

The other question that must be addressed, is why would anyone invest in the UK, if they know that their success will attract a wealth tax that isn't payable elsewhere.

Wouldn't they prefer to invest in a country with no wealth tax?

The UK is in a global market. If we want to attract investment, our tax regime has to be competitive. It's a balance. Just saying 'tax the rich' won't do it.

TizerorFizz · 15/04/2025 19:27

Make pip means tested. That might help. We cannot drive any more rich people away. We need their money.

MyUmberSeal · 15/04/2025 19:32

Meadowfinch · 15/04/2025 19:16

I thought the rich being targeted have £10 million plus...... That's hardly someone getting lucky and buying a house in the 70s.

Those with ten million plus will be business founders, performers, financial traders, Times 250 CEOs etc. Do we want to drive those people abroad?

Covid was always going to have to be paid for. That was inevitable. I'd prefer a penny on the rate of income tax and the burden shared between all of us. I'm on a mid-salary so that would probably be to my disadvantage but it would be more widely palatable.

Totally agree. The very rich pay tons of tax already.

Crazybaby123 · 15/04/2025 19:44

Bad idea, badly thought through. I think disabled people should not have benefits cut, but this particular idea of a wealth tax has not been thought through and I thinknis a bad idea. And no I am not in the wealthy bracket.

I want lower taxes for investment and encouragement of wealthy people to keep assets, investments and money in the UK as the more money that leaves the uk the poorer we all become.

mateysmum · 15/04/2025 19:53

So you want to tax people just because their house which they bought 40 years ago has increased 10x in value? How do you propose people produce the liquidity to pay the tax? Somebody say who bought a home when they got married in 1980 is now probably retired and living on a pension in that same house. The only way they could pay is by selling up.
Wealth taxes only work once. By the second time those affected will have liquidated assets and moved them abroad. France is trying it but last time they did so everybody who could, left the country.
You seem to think that all money in the economy belongs to the government apart from the fraction they allow each of us to keep. A wealth tax would simply destroy ambition and future wealth creation. The very wealth that supports the welfare state.

Anonym00se · 15/04/2025 20:02

mateysmum · 15/04/2025 19:53

So you want to tax people just because their house which they bought 40 years ago has increased 10x in value? How do you propose people produce the liquidity to pay the tax? Somebody say who bought a home when they got married in 1980 is now probably retired and living on a pension in that same house. The only way they could pay is by selling up.
Wealth taxes only work once. By the second time those affected will have liquidated assets and moved them abroad. France is trying it but last time they did so everybody who could, left the country.
You seem to think that all money in the economy belongs to the government apart from the fraction they allow each of us to keep. A wealth tax would simply destroy ambition and future wealth creation. The very wealth that supports the welfare state.

They’d have had to have bought a house 40 years ago for one million pounds, that is now worth over £10m. I doubt they’d be living on a state pension only. It’d be like Downton Abbey!

mateysmum · 15/04/2025 20:06

@Anonym00se I was thinking more of the principle. The £10mill figure is just theoretical. Once established these taxes never go. Incme tax was originally introduced as a temporary measure!

Shwish · 15/04/2025 20:15

Meadowfinch · 15/04/2025 19:24

The other question that must be addressed, is why would anyone invest in the UK, if they know that their success will attract a wealth tax that isn't payable elsewhere.

Wouldn't they prefer to invest in a country with no wealth tax?

The UK is in a global market. If we want to attract investment, our tax regime has to be competitive. It's a balance. Just saying 'tax the rich' won't do it.

Honestly I would genuinely prefer a bit less "foreign investment". Central.London is pretty much all owned by the Chinese, Russian or Middle Eastern wealthy who either leave the properties empty (residential) or rent them out for extortionate amounts of they're business premises. Then they sweep that rental income back into their bank accounts in their tax haven home countries. What benefit do we get from that as a nation? Tax them. Then they can either pay or leave and maybe the locals could afford property or British wealthy could buy the businesses and pay tax at home.
Same goes for all of our once national utilities/ industries.

QuestionableMouse · 15/04/2025 21:29

I'm not jealous.

I'm currently not physically capable of working at the moment due to severe migraines. I get £809 a month UC limited capacity for work. I had £20 left last month after bills, groceries (I was also recently diagnosed as celiac and gluten free basics are significantly more expensive) and other essentials.

I'm not jealous.

I'm fucking terrified. If my UC is cut, I genuinely don't know how I'm going to survive.

OP posts:
AmusedGoose · 15/04/2025 21:36

Wealth taxation is unusual with only 2 countries worldwide adopting it. The wealthy will just move their money and the squeezed middle classes will become more squeezed and very little raised. Certainly the £24 billion quoted by a certain politician is totally wrong. Unfortunately many on benefits lose the reality of how much they would have to earn to bring that amount home.

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · 15/04/2025 21:47

QuestionableMouse · 15/04/2025 21:29

I'm not jealous.

I'm currently not physically capable of working at the moment due to severe migraines. I get £809 a month UC limited capacity for work. I had £20 left last month after bills, groceries (I was also recently diagnosed as celiac and gluten free basics are significantly more expensive) and other essentials.

I'm not jealous.

I'm fucking terrified. If my UC is cut, I genuinely don't know how I'm going to survive.

I’m not celiac but I try to eat a diet which is as unprocessed as possible, most of what I eat is just naturally gluten free and not at all expensive. I don’t really eat bread because the supermarket stuff is a health hazard and I don’t eat breakfast because I try to extend my overnight fast which has good evidence for being good for you. I am vegetarian so most of my meals are based around beans, lentils tofu and tempeh with lots of vegetables. I don’t really eat fruit anymore because it’s been selectively bred to be really sweet but I do occasionally have frozen blueberries with yogurt. Yogurt is really easy and cheap to make yourself. I really believe that the expensive stuff in people’s supermarket trollies is often unhealthy and frequently unnecessary. I’m assuming you’ve got time to go to the library and read and also listen to some podcasts. I highly recommend the Zoe podcast along with the book Ultra Processed People by Chris Van Tulleken, I have found The Doctor’s Kitchen cookbook at the library which is really excellent. I’m sure you would find following the diet advice of the above saves you money and hopefully as a bonus your migraines will probably improve. 😊

FruityCider · 15/04/2025 21:59

Hard fucking agree. Close the loopholes. Pay your bit or fuck off.

Maybe build some bog standard but strong affordable flats (especially in London) London instead of letting them a metric shit ton of 'luxury' flats with pointless gyms, concierges etc which noone can afford.

People are angry at the wrong people. Tax me more. We earn 6 figures - we can afford it.

QuestionableMouse · 15/04/2025 22:00

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · 15/04/2025 21:47

I’m not celiac but I try to eat a diet which is as unprocessed as possible, most of what I eat is just naturally gluten free and not at all expensive. I don’t really eat bread because the supermarket stuff is a health hazard and I don’t eat breakfast because I try to extend my overnight fast which has good evidence for being good for you. I am vegetarian so most of my meals are based around beans, lentils tofu and tempeh with lots of vegetables. I don’t really eat fruit anymore because it’s been selectively bred to be really sweet but I do occasionally have frozen blueberries with yogurt. Yogurt is really easy and cheap to make yourself. I really believe that the expensive stuff in people’s supermarket trollies is often unhealthy and frequently unnecessary. I’m assuming you’ve got time to go to the library and read and also listen to some podcasts. I highly recommend the Zoe podcast along with the book Ultra Processed People by Chris Van Tulleken, I have found The Doctor’s Kitchen cookbook at the library which is really excellent. I’m sure you would find following the diet advice of the above saves you money and hopefully as a bonus your migraines will probably improve. 😊

Respectfully, I don't need diet advice. I want a loaf of bread that isn't £3 for one that half the size of a normal loaf.

OP posts:
Wordsworse · 15/04/2025 22:08

Maybe you do need the diet advice.

Bazinga007 · 15/04/2025 22:09

So you tax the wealthy people who are very likely to be company owners and employers and will result in them cutting jobs to make up any shortfall.

QuestionableMouse · 15/04/2025 22:10

Wordsworse · 15/04/2025 22:08

Maybe you do need the diet advice.

I think the dietician at the hospital has it covered. My migraines aren't triggered by food.

OP posts:
User46576 · 15/04/2025 22:12

JandamiHash · 15/04/2025 18:39

The petition isn’t to tax those people it’s to tax the 0.04% of the populations wealthiest people

The truth is that this doesn’t raise any significant funds. Wealth taxes have never raised money long term anywhere

User46576 · 15/04/2025 22:14

FruityCider · 15/04/2025 21:59

Hard fucking agree. Close the loopholes. Pay your bit or fuck off.

Maybe build some bog standard but strong affordable flats (especially in London) London instead of letting them a metric shit ton of 'luxury' flats with pointless gyms, concierges etc which noone can afford.

People are angry at the wrong people. Tax me more. We earn 6 figures - we can afford it.

What “loopholes” do you propose be closed?

Possiblyfamous · 15/04/2025 22:33

Yellowshirt · 15/04/2025 19:08

Why don't they look at the people who got the houses when they were cheap and are now worth something like 10 times more.
Tax them abit more.

Also stop allowing inheritance of these houses when people die if the children already own a home.

Do you mean people who were able to take advantage of the right to buy scheme?

littlebilliie · 15/04/2025 22:35

THE TAX SYSTEM EXPLAINED IN BEER

Suppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this.

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.

The fifth would pay £1.

The sixth would pay £3.

The seventh would pay £7.

The eighth would pay £12.

The ninth would pay £18

And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20.” Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share?

They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody's share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a 100% saving).

The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).

The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).

The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).

The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).

And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).

Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got £1 out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10"

"Yes, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved £1 too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me"

"That's true" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "We didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next week the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important - they didn't have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill.

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.

Professor of Economics.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.

For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

SpottedDonkey · 15/04/2025 22:50

I won’t sign it. My concern would be that in practice any proposed ‘wealth tax’ wouldn’t just hit billionaires, it would also clobber hard-working middle class professionals who already pay far too much tax.

I also fully support the government’s proposed benefit changes which are designed to slow the growth of the benefits bill which is currently bankrupting the country by creating stronger incentives for those who can work to do so. And for those people to contribute to society rather than wasting their lives on benefits because they allegedly have anxiety / depression / ‘long covid’ etc etc.

mismomary · 15/04/2025 22:56

ErrolTheDragon · 15/04/2025 18:31

‘A 2% Wealth Tax on assets over £10 million could raise up to £24 billion per year.’

Or it could just result in yet more wealthy people move abroad and result in a smaller tax take - thats a pretty likely outcome of simplistic policies.

Exactly.

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