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To ask you to sign this petition to tax wealth rather than attacking the most vulnerable members of society?

320 replies

QuestionableMouse · 15/04/2025 18:22

https://www.change.org/p/tax-wealth-don-t-cut-disability-support

I've signed it.

If the cuts do ahead thousands of people are going to be badly affected (me included due to long COVID which has left me chroniclly unwell)

Sign the Petition

TAX WEALTH – DON'T CUT DISABILITY SUPPORT

https://www.change.org/p/tax-wealth-don-t-cut-disability-support

OP posts:
BoredZelda · 21/04/2025 10:15

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · 15/04/2025 19:22

@QuestionableMouse , ohh what a very unpleasant response! That’s not the intention at all. The idea is to help those who are able back into work and support is to be provided. I’m sure you will agree no one should be claiming benefits if they can work and pay taxes? There is also an intention of disincentivising those who choose to languish on benefits at the expense of the working people. I was a bit surprised to read on an earlier post someone quite openly state that they weren’t prepared to work because they were considerably better off claiming various benefits. That cannot be permitted. Hopefully if all those who are frankly taking the piss are firmly encouraged to get off their lazy backsides and get a job then there should be more money available for those who are in genuine need. I dare say there are very many people who know they have been scrounging who are concerned and that doesn’t bother me one bit. I hope that the government gets a move on and provides reassurance to the legitimate claimants.

You think disabled people who can work don’t want to work? You think they choose to sit in unsuitable homes, isolated and in poverty because they don’t want to work?

The attitudes to disabled people prevalent here and on the countless other threads accusing them of being workshy and lazy also prevail in the workplace. The disability employment gap is 29%. Disabled people are far less likely to be called for interview, and when interviewed are far less likely to be given the position. When they do get a job there is a pay gap of nearly 15%.

Disabled children are missing out on education so when they become adults they need more support. This support is also being cut. The Access to Work scheme has funding already wasn’t enough and has been cut. There is no provision for people who may require more time off due to being unable to work due to ill health. Employers are moving away from WFH and there is no provision in the law to make sure this is a protected right for disabled workers where possible.

If the government was certain they are properly supporting disabled people in to work, they would make sure the provision was in place and was working, before they decided to cut PIP benefits. Instead they are effectively starving disabled people in to working in environments and situations which are not good for them, simply to squeeze taxes out of them.

If you can’t see that is the problem, then you ARE the problem.

QuestionableMouse · 21/04/2025 10:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

QuestionableMouse · 21/04/2025 10:29

BoredZelda · 21/04/2025 10:15

You think disabled people who can work don’t want to work? You think they choose to sit in unsuitable homes, isolated and in poverty because they don’t want to work?

The attitudes to disabled people prevalent here and on the countless other threads accusing them of being workshy and lazy also prevail in the workplace. The disability employment gap is 29%. Disabled people are far less likely to be called for interview, and when interviewed are far less likely to be given the position. When they do get a job there is a pay gap of nearly 15%.

Disabled children are missing out on education so when they become adults they need more support. This support is also being cut. The Access to Work scheme has funding already wasn’t enough and has been cut. There is no provision for people who may require more time off due to being unable to work due to ill health. Employers are moving away from WFH and there is no provision in the law to make sure this is a protected right for disabled workers where possible.

If the government was certain they are properly supporting disabled people in to work, they would make sure the provision was in place and was working, before they decided to cut PIP benefits. Instead they are effectively starving disabled people in to working in environments and situations which are not good for them, simply to squeeze taxes out of them.

If you can’t see that is the problem, then you ARE the problem.

Thank you for summing it up better than I could!

OP posts:
mummytoonetryingfortwo · 21/04/2025 10:36

This reply has been deleted

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Swearing at and insulting people isn’t the way to convince them of anything. Personally I believe we should be leveraging windfall taxes on the utility companies, but if I’m going to be sworn at I won’t sign any petitions.

OP posts:
Kardamyli2 · 21/04/2025 11:35

This reply has been deleted

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You're not going to get people to agree with you by calling them fuckers.

Tryingtokeepgoing · 21/04/2025 12:00

QuestionableMouse · 21/04/2025 08:51

No you fucking don't.

PIP fraud is at 0%.

It is not credible to claim that PIP fraud is 0%. It just isn’t. There’s a whole industry sprung up coaching people to fill in forms the ‘right’ way, and say the ‘right’ things to milk the system. Which is a shame, as it means those like you are in real need get dragged into debates like this.

Entirely anecdotal, but a doctor friend of mine shares an HMO (6 units) in a south coast city. One of the occupants, a clinically obese woman in her mid thirties, has spent the last 5 years not working. Not because she can’t, but because she didn’t want to. She was living entirely on benefits. The headlines created by labours stance has got her really scared that her benefits are about to be stopped. And guess what. She now swims 3 times a week, walks every day and is actively looking for work. As she says, it was nice while it lasted. Now, I pass no judgement, but people like that with attitudes like that re what makes it so difficult for those genuinely in need.

And, as a counterpoint, for the last 10 years of his life my late husband was entitled to higher rate DLA. But, although it wasn’t means tested, we didn’t need the money and so didn’t claim. Again, I really think money needs targeting at those most in need.

So, I agree with your view that the disabled should be protected, but I don’t think that means no changes.

Badbadbunny · 21/04/2025 13:03

QuestionableMouse · 21/04/2025 08:51

No you fucking don't.

PIP fraud is at 0%.

Of course it's not 0%. That would mean that not a single person was wrongly claiming PIP. That's just a ridiculous assertion.

mummytoonetryingfortwo · 21/04/2025 13:18

Badbadbunny · 21/04/2025 13:03

Of course it's not 0%. That would mean that not a single person was wrongly claiming PIP. That's just a ridiculous assertion.

I think the fraud thing comes from a strange method of recording and reporting it.

I was told, when I approached my GP for mental health support, that the first step was to get me signed off sick and onto PIP. It’s an insane system

Ti7ch · 21/04/2025 14:03

GreenTurtles3 · 21/04/2025 08:41

Sorry, I know far too many people abusing the system to support your request.

And you haven't reported those people you think are abusing the system because...? Chances are they're claiming for something you don't have a clue about

SwanRivers · 21/04/2025 14:57

Badbadbunny · 21/04/2025 13:03

Of course it's not 0%. That would mean that not a single person was wrongly claiming PIP. That's just a ridiculous assertion.

Where there's benefits there will always be fraud.

It won't ever be 0% but as a PP says, the way they record it can make it look that way.

Yellowshirt · 21/04/2025 15:08

This reply has been deleted

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Classy woman you are hiding behind your computer swearing at people!!!
Stop hiding behind Covid. I worked throughout the whole of it . I didn't get a penny and I'm still having to pay higher taxes.
Get back to work. Are you saying due to Covid you can never work again?

SquashedSquid · 21/04/2025 16:17

Yellowshirt · 21/04/2025 15:08

Classy woman you are hiding behind your computer swearing at people!!!
Stop hiding behind Covid. I worked throughout the whole of it . I didn't get a penny and I'm still having to pay higher taxes.
Get back to work. Are you saying due to Covid you can never work again?

Edited

Do you have Long Covid, then? Also known as Post Viral Fatigue Syndrome? Are you saying it doesn't exist?

CaptainFuture · 21/04/2025 16:27

Quite, this is starting to remind me of the shit show that was the Scottish Independence debacle, with one side of the vote just not getting that being abusive, calling people names including stupid 'fuckers', and basically pontificating that anyone who didn't want to do what you told them to was 'killing people', not quite getting that's not how you obtain people's good will and support!

QuestionableMouse · 21/04/2025 16:28

Yellowshirt · 21/04/2025 15:08

Classy woman you are hiding behind your computer swearing at people!!!
Stop hiding behind Covid. I worked throughout the whole of it . I didn't get a penny and I'm still having to pay higher taxes.
Get back to work. Are you saying due to Covid you can never work again?

Edited

And what job do you suggest I do when I spend 2-4 days a week puking into a bucket, unable to bear noise or light?

Or when I get so breathless that I feel like I'm suffocating? Or when I'm so dizzy I can't see straight? Or when my head is ringing with tinnitus?

Who will magically employ me? Because I'd absolutely love to know!

OP posts:
QuestionableMouse · 21/04/2025 16:29

CaptainFuture · 21/04/2025 16:27

Quite, this is starting to remind me of the shit show that was the Scottish Independence debacle, with one side of the vote just not getting that being abusive, calling people names including stupid 'fuckers', and basically pontificating that anyone who didn't want to do what you told them to was 'killing people', not quite getting that's not how you obtain people's good will and support!

Of course the cuts are going to kill people. What do you think is going to happen if people have no money and no ability to work? Cutting vital funding isn't magically going to fix disability.

OP posts:
QuestionableMouse · 21/04/2025 16:30

Yellowshirt · 21/04/2025 15:08

Classy woman you are hiding behind your computer swearing at people!!!
Stop hiding behind Covid. I worked throughout the whole of it . I didn't get a penny and I'm still having to pay higher taxes.
Get back to work. Are you saying due to Covid you can never work again?

Edited

I also worked through Covid. Which is how I caught the damn thing.

OP posts:
WeylandYutani · 21/04/2025 18:03

QuestionableMouse · 20/04/2025 12:59

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/721547

Can I ask people to sign this one please?

Have signed. I am not able to work due to my disabilities. I am so worried about the proposed cuts but even more worried about being forced to find work. I have tried to work and ended up very ill. I keep well by not working. Demands are kept low (I am autistic). I burnout so easily. I have to have so much help with my day to day stuff. Work will just finish me off. I don't want to live in constant burnout and ill health. I can't do it.

QuestionableMouse · 21/04/2025 18:20

WeylandYutani · 21/04/2025 18:03

Have signed. I am not able to work due to my disabilities. I am so worried about the proposed cuts but even more worried about being forced to find work. I have tried to work and ended up very ill. I keep well by not working. Demands are kept low (I am autistic). I burnout so easily. I have to have so much help with my day to day stuff. Work will just finish me off. I don't want to live in constant burnout and ill health. I can't do it.

Thank you.

It's an awful feeling, isn't it?

OP posts:
ChristmasFluff · 21/04/2025 18:27

Of course I have signed.

The ableism on this thread is shocking, and displays a complete lack of understanding or empathy.

And as for sticking up for the super-rich - you do realise that you are far more likely to end up disabled than at the same level of wealth as them? It's them that are the parasites, as they make their wealth off the labour of others, and don't pay decent wages. Just look at the growth in disparity between CEOs and the people who work for them.

But oh no, you have to punch down. Shameful.

It's not people on benefits who are the problem in this country.

QuestionableMouse · 21/04/2025 20:28

@Yellowshirt

I'm very keen to hear your ideas for jobs. Please can you tell me what I can do?

OP posts:
CaptainFuture · 21/04/2025 20:46

QuestionableMouse · 21/04/2025 16:29

Of course the cuts are going to kill people. What do you think is going to happen if people have no money and no ability to work? Cutting vital funding isn't magically going to fix disability.

And what about the working population who are being ground into the ground as well when bills go up, work commute gets more and more expensive? They don't get access to grants, dispensation for energy debt etc?
No you're meant to be elated to be taxed more and more, and if you question it, or say it affects you too, you get abuse and called a 'fucker'. 🙄

WeylandYutani · 21/04/2025 20:51

CaptainFuture · 21/04/2025 20:46

And what about the working population who are being ground into the ground as well when bills go up, work commute gets more and more expensive? They don't get access to grants, dispensation for energy debt etc?
No you're meant to be elated to be taxed more and more, and if you question it, or say it affects you too, you get abuse and called a 'fucker'. 🙄

A society is judged on how it treats its most vulnerable. Here we are, where the most vulnerable are going to be made more poor. It will result in suicides. Many of my disabled peers are scared to death about how they are going to live.
The cost of living and crap wages are nothing to do with them.

Jinglejanglejangle · 21/04/2025 20:53

Suppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.
So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20." Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody's share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a100% saving).
The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).
The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).
The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).
The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).
And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).
Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.

But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got £1 out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a £1 too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next week the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important - they didn't have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

WeylandYutani · 21/04/2025 20:59

Jinglejanglejangle · 21/04/2025 20:53

Suppose that once a week, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to £100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this...

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay £1.
The sixth would pay £3.
The seventh would pay £7.
The eighth would pay £12.
The ninth would pay £18.
And the tenth man (the richest) would pay £59.
So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every week and seemed quite happy with the arrangement until, one day, the owner caused them a little problem. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your weekly beer by £20." Drinks for the ten men would now cost just £80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free but what about the other six men? The paying customers? How could they divide the £20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that £20 divided by six is £3.33 but if they subtracted that from everybody's share then not only would the first four men still be drinking for free but the fifth and sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer.

So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fairer to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage. They decided to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay.

And so, the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (a100% saving).
The sixth man now paid £2 instead of £3 (a 33% saving).
The seventh man now paid £5 instead of £7 (a 28% saving).
The eighth man now paid £9 instead of £12 (a 25% saving).
The ninth man now paid £14 instead of £18 (a 22% saving).
And the tenth man now paid £49 instead of £59 (a 16% saving).
Each of the last six was better off than before with the first four continuing to drink for free.

But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got £1 out of the £20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got £10!"
"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a £1 too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!"

"That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get £10 back, when I only got £2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next week the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important - they didn't have enough money between all of them to pay for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy and they just might not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

How much do they to live on after paying for the beer though?