To ask you to sign this petition to tax wealth rather than attacking the most vulnerable members of society?

[QuestionableMouse]

https://www.change.org/p/tax-wealth-don-t-cut-disability-support

I've signed it.

If the cuts do ahead thousands of people are going to be badly affected (me included due to long COVID which has left me chroniclly unwell)

No, not always. Money can be made from innovation and other rich people. It absolutely isn't always made from the poor. What a ridiculous notion!

I dont think you're a burden.

I want the rich to pay more taxes so the many can benefit.

@Possiblyfamous Yes I do think they should look at people who benefited from the help to buy scheme. They should also tax inheritance more if you already own a home.
There's some very simple steps the government could do to raise more money in the short term which would then lead to lower taxes for everyone in the long term.

I am against this because it will affect people like me, not the billionaires. The reason is I'm in receipt of full PIP because I have severe MS but my husband is a higher rate tax payer. We aren't entitled to any other benefits because of his salary and he is already taxed to death. I work part time in spite of being seriously ill. I have very little sympathy for people claiming benefits when they are capable of working. I listen to some very entitled people saying they couldn't possibly work because of their 'illnesses' when frankly I am much more seriously ill than them.

So basically the millionaires and billionaires will escape tax one way or another but my husband- who works bloody hard and is now the sole real breadwinner in our house - will pay more tax under your plan. All this so 24 year olds with 'depression' can live on benefits indefinitely. Just no.

Please stop with the hyperbole. I know this is a sensitive subject and emotions inevitably get involved but it is also a discussion that needs to be had sensibly and reasonably. You have posted a link to a petition that is obviously controversial yet seem completely unable to deal with the fallout.

All this talk of killing and death reminds me of discussions around trans rights where TRAs will seek to silence anyone who raises questions or concerns by insisting that any perceived detriment to the trans community is tantamount to murder. It might work for a while but ultimately people see through the smoke screen and reasoned conversations will be had.

It's not hyperbole.

People will die if they can't afford heating, food or other needs. OAPs die every year from the cold and these cuts will only make things worse.

I had £20 left last month after bills and essentials. Would you like me to stop eating, because that's about the only cost I can reduce?

Your posts are confused and to be honest just highlight why people become dependent on disability benefits. The gap between these benefits and the standard UC payments is enormous! Nobody wants to live on the standard amount and it is undoubtedly very hard to do so so the incentive is clearly there for people to claim disability benefits. This is especially true when very few people are enjoying perfect health and the distinction between disabled and non-disabled is less black and white than people like to believe. There is also a different threshold when someone is deemed disabled enough to qualify for PIP etc. The whole system is a mess and open to exploitation which is undoubtedly happening.

Where has anyone said people on benefits are a burden and they want them to die?
Yes life is expensive but that's what's shit about it, and why dh and I aren't living close to the areas we grew up in as we've been priced out. We've had to move where the cost to live is feasible on our income.
I see it here all the time! Complaints about being unable to afford to live, then they say how deep in London or another expensive area they live, but get incandescent with rage if someone suggests they move area as its THEIR RIGHT!! to live where they want!

I was called a burden to society in this exact thread.

Honestly @QuestionableMouse ignore stupid comments like that. What is the point of society if it doesn't mean we all pitch in what we can to try and make sure that nobody sinks?
I'm sure all those people calling others a burden could give you a million reasons why they shouldn't pay in but I bet they'd all take if they had to.

It's not ridiculous at all. Most industries rely on the grunts at the bottom to get the daily toil done. Yes. There are rich people up the tree but far fewer of them.
Capitalism relies on the poor toiling to make money for the rich, who then complain, when subject to taxation, that the poor are 'taking their money'. The mind boggles.

I would have thought most local authority salaries are funded by council tax, if not from council tax then what else would fund them?

I googled and apparently it is part council tax, part business rates and part from central government. I guess it will vary from council to council. We are in one of the most expensive council tax areas. We aren't even in the highest band and are paying close to 4k this year.

I'm currently in a temporary role funded by the LA ( although I don't work directly for them) so I'm very grateful!

What does it mean “assets”? If you have a £10 million business it doesn’t necessarily mean you have £200,000 spare sitting in the bank to pay a 2% tax every year 🤷‍♀️

Oh all the TAX THE RICH GIVE ME THEIR MONEY!! dont care about that.... they just want other people's money.

And how would you even value the business fairly in the first place to assess the tax due? The whole thing’s just daft.

I read it was rental/investment properties, cash, investments (stocks, bonds, shares), artwork, jewellery, cars, and other very-high value items with expected exemptions. I’d imagine that means they won’t tax your wedding rings but they would tax the £100,000 diamond necklaces you keep in a safety deposit box at Coutts.

It’s all bollocks anyway. If the government don’t have the resources to means-test the winter fuel allowance how will they conjure up an army of auditors to evaluate people’s net wealth?

I wouldn’t sign this. I think firstly what is being paid out needs to be analysed . MN is very good at advising those struggling to make ends meet to analyse their outgoings and make cuts accordingly before advising them to change jobs etc.

My DM was told to claim, I think, Carers Allowance when my DF was terminally ill. Why? she didn’t need it.

I disagree with the sentiment of this post. I know you're trying to be sympathetic to OP but we need to get real and have adult conversations about this without treading on egg shells.

Factually OP is an economic burden for the state. She is a big net beneficiary of the system and I imagine when medical and wider costs are factored in then this will probably be to the tune of at least £15k a year. That's £15k a year we need to raise through taxation each and every year to fund just one person. The average person pays around £10k in total in tax each year so she is basically withdrawing the equivalent from the system of the contributions of one and a half average people. All well and good except 24% of the population are now disabled and numbers are rising rapidly. You don't need to be a mathematical genius to work out that this whole model is pretty unsustainable.

Of course, there are other big taxes (Corporation Tax etc) that we can use to fund the welfare state but there are also a hell of a lot of other very expensive things we want to spend state money on too. We have astronomical levels of national debt that are crippling the country as interest payments now cost a two thirds of the health budget to service. We have been borrowing to fund our expensive welfare habit and that has to stop.

So your arguments about everyone pitching in to make sure nobody sinks don't really make sense when we aren't talking about a tiny minority needing help for a short time. We are talking about huge numbers of people needing a massive amount of help for their whole lives. Tax payers won't need to just 'pitch in' but to essentially assign a massive proportion of their tax contribution to funding this. This inevitably means that there is less money available to fund other state services and so when as you put it, the people who have worked all their lives want to take something out of the system that they have essentially paid for (which they undoubtedly may do at some time in their lives) they find that there is very little left for them.

The welfare state was never intended to function like this when it was envisaged and there has never been a referendum to change it's purpose. Instead we limp on with everyone getting increasingly frustrated and angry. The beneficiaries are cross because they aren't getting enough so they try to maximise what they can claim and the contributors are annoyed that they see so little for their money and try to minimise what they pay. We need to really get to the bottom of all of this and be honest and open about what we as a society are happy to fund and pay for with public money.

I have signed the petition OP but I think the whole system needs an overhaul. Disability payments should be means tested for a start, DH and I are both good earners and don’t qualify for any benefits but are still eligible to claim over £400 a month DLA for one of our DC’s. There will be a lot of people who are claiming this that just don’t need the income.

Factually OP is an economic burden for the state. She is a big net beneficiary of the system and I imagine when medical and wider costs are factored in then this will probably be to the tune of at least £15k a year. That's £15k a year we need to raise through taxation each and every year to fund just one person. The average person pays around £10k in total in tax each year so she is basically withdrawing the equivalent from the system of the contributions of one and a half average people. All well and good except 24% of the population are now disabled and numbers are rising rapidly. You don't need to be a mathematical genius to work out that this whole model is pretty unsustainable.

@Bumpitybumper I’m not sure where you got your numbers from? The average amount of tax paid per year (inc income tax, NI, VAT, fuel duty) varies greatly by area. Only London is higher than £10K. In Hull, it’s less than £6K. Where does £15K come from? A “hard working” Middle Englander who claims no benefits and has two teenagers in school will also be costing the state £15K a year in education alone. Should we stop educating children?

The fact remains that the vast majority of people are net beneficiaries. Why do you focus on disabled people to even the balance? Why aren’t people waving their pitchforks and demanding that income tax is raised so that everyone is pulling their weight?

I think we have used the same website that details total tax paid by individuals. Yes, it does vary by region and no average is provided so £10k was on the generous side. I imagine £8-9K would be more accurate. Either way this makes the situation worse not better.

The example of education is unfair. Education is arguably for the benefit of the individual children not the parents. It is also an investment in future employment and skills which will ultimately lead to increased tax revenue as the children grow into adults. This isn't comparable with UC and disability benefits paid to cover the costs of day to day living.

Disability payments are a lot higher than standard UC and spiralling in a way that most other welfare costs simply aren't. That's why the focus on on this. The answer can't be taxing people more on their incomes when there is an already obvious problem with people being incentivised to claim benefits over working. How will increasing income tax help with this? Is it really acceptable to keep asking the taxpayer to pay and more to carry the increasing weight of more and more people contributing nothing and claiming an awful lot?

Wealth taxes act as a disincentive so this is a non-starter.

Unfortunately there comes a point when taxpayers have had enough. Have you not noticed that the wealthiest countries in the world are all tax havens?

The answer is smaller government, less bureaucracy, reduced costs and ultimately less people. A return to simpler times.

Everyone is one bad day away from being disabled. Everyone.

Again I was working 40+ hours a week in two jobs before I got covid- probably caught at work . I did everything they said to do. I've had no help with the symptoms. There is no help available in my area. I'm really fucking angry about it actually because I've been robbed of the life I should have. There are days that hoovering or just walking up the damn stairs leave me feeling like I have flu.

Many people think migraine= headache but they're not. I feel like my head is being crushed in a vice while I vomit multiple times. I can't bear light or sound or even sometimes being touched. I get visual changes. My face goes numb and weird on one side and I struggle to speak.

But if someone can find me a job where I can take two or three days off a week because I'm down with a migraine or suffering with LC symptoms I'd absolutely love it.