Page 5 | Petition - Allow 10 days term time leave without punishment

Natbat87 · 2024-12-02T18:02:46+00:00

Please sign & share the petition 🙏[[https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700047 https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700047]] This is to oppose the current punitive legislation around term time leave. Families need leave for a variety of reasons. Please join us on the FB group - Protest to fight school fines & on tiktok.

JSMill · 03/12/2024 17:16

Hoppinggreen · 02/12/2024 19:14

And teachers do not have to play catch up, most parents are perfectly capable of filling in the gaps...not all parents are stupid!

Why have teachers at all then? I am far from stupid but I can't do the job of a teacher, I send my DC to school to learn from people trained and qualified to do it

I'm glad to see that some people appreciate the work of teachers but it's not just that they know better how to teach. If a child is absent for a couple of days, for example, they may come back in the middle of something, such as a writing task which has already been started. Pieces of writing are done over several days. If a pupil comes back in the middle, it's a lot of work to help
them catch up, even if the teacher has a TA and these days TAs are usually very busy with SEN children.

CurryNRedWine · 03/12/2024 17:17

Hoppinggreen · 03/12/2024 14:07

Both myself and DH are SE, I have cared for elderly relatives.
Your circumstances are not unusual or special except to you. The choice is not 10 days of kids missing lessons OR no quality time with parents (whatever that actually means), your kids can go to school and still manage time with you as a family.
For full disclosure I HAVE taken my DC out of school for an odd day here or there but it was only to save money on holidays, I never pretended it was life and death or necessary to us as a family - it was just to have some additional fun. IF I had been fined I would have paid it without argument.

….but do you deserve a criminal record for accessing those cheaper opportunities for enriching your child’s life? Or maybe you can suck up the increase in cost but begrudge it. in which case, you’re luckier than most.

LlynTegid · 03/12/2024 17:20

There is a case for genuine and defined exceptions, but not the blanket removal of the policy. I'd like it to be replaced by something other than fines if a workable alternative could be fined.

Hoppinggreen · 03/12/2024 17:37

CurryNRedWine · 03/12/2024 17:17

….but do you deserve a criminal record for accessing those cheaper opportunities for enriching your child’s life? Or maybe you can suck up the increase in cost but begrudge it. in which case, you’re luckier than most.

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Theres no need for a criminal record, pay up. If you can't afford to risk the fine then best not do it.
In our case any potential fine was less than the amount we saved by leaving a day or 2 before half term for example, plus we got a longer holiday.
Its a calculation everyone should make before deciding to do it.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 03/12/2024 17:54

CurryNRedWine · 03/12/2024 14:01

At what point did I mention aircraft?!?

By way of my working example, the sentiment of which is readily portable - this year, we could not have accessed a proper break together almost all year, even if we’d wanted to. Regardless of whether we wanted time to be spent at Butlins or Barbados.

I became the primary carer for Nan with Alzheimer’s. The diagnosis process began at the very beginning of the year after an especially traumatic incident. By the end of January we had a diagnosis from the memory team….then it took until mid-October for everything else to be finalised as we navigated the various NHS and local authority teams for care to be in place that she would accept.

if I wasn’t readily available to support her, she was at great risk on many fronts that I’ll not bore you with.

Then we overlay the fact that my husband is a solo self-employed chartered accountant who can never take off the last or first weeks of each month due to legal HMRC deadlines. So the Oct half term, which always falls on the last week of term, was out of reach to us.

So here we are. A family that had managed to achieve just four days in a row together all year.

My daughter’s deserve our time. My daughter’s deserve time together. My daughter’s deserve to benefit from time with their Daddy.

Sound like a piss-take to you?? Does it sound like I care where we spend that time? Have I mentioned cost or exotic destinations? Heck, do I even care if it’s ‘educational’ as has been so sarcastically scoffed in this thread? Nope. None of the above. It was purely the importance of us all accessing time together that would not have been possible during a school holiday.

And here’s the crux of it. My eldest daughter’s school supported us. They used some flex in the system to allow us to have a well-deserved and much-needed break together. But because of the inconsistency of how the punitive policy is applied, MANY headteachers fail to do this. So I was ok. Great. Hardly a ‘win’ though is it?

Seeing as the poor mum whose cancer diagnosis and subsequent chemo wiped out most of her year DID get fined. That’s why we campaign. Because that’s not a lottery I’m comfortable with.

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Your desire to have cheaper holidays or being all sad because your husband has chosen to not be around you or your children for more than Christmas Day, Boxing Day and Easter Sunday/Monday does not win hearts and minds in the way you think it should.

What was stopping him at Christmas when accountancy practices close for two weeks? What prevented him from doing something in August? Was there no value to weekends or evenings or did he avoid them then as well?

FrippEnos · 03/12/2024 18:18

CurryNRedWine · 03/12/2024 17:14

I’m referring to a reasonably restorative length of time that amounts to more than rushed mornings (if parents are available), snatched evenings (if parents are available) and weekends (if parents are available).

Regardless of HOW time is spent, back garden or Benidorm,
is irrelevant, this is recognising and respecting the diversity of family needs because many do not have access to TIME that correlates with the school calendar.

I never had a holiday away with my mum as a child. Ever. In fact the first holiday I ever had with my her, I was 26 and had to pay for us both. So poignant was this occasion, there were tears!

BUT she was available for the school holidays so at least I benefited from time with her. Sadly, many kids cannot say the same.

if you don’t have difficulties getting time off, if you don’t run your own business with accompanying pressures, if you don’t have mandated holidays - good for YOU.

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I'm not going down the four Yorkshire men route.
But if you have these difficulties then its your choices that have led to this.
We all have to eat, we all need a place to call home etc. etc.
But making other people worker harder so that you can have a want is not on.

So yes campaign for extra holidays if you must but if you are going to at least campaign for some of the stupidity that is the education system to end as well.
The bits like league tables and holding teachers accountable for your choices.

CurryNRedWine · 03/12/2024 18:22

Hoppinggreen · 03/12/2024 17:37

Theres no need for a criminal record, pay up. If you can't afford to risk the fine then best not do it.
In our case any potential fine was less than the amount we saved by leaving a day or 2 before half term for example, plus we got a longer holiday.
Its a calculation everyone should make before deciding to do it.

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…and this, folks, is why the petition exists! Because you don’t get a choice over the criminal record and the path to it has been royally lubed up! Under the old policy, yes you could just pay the fine, but since August this year, there is now a cap on the fines of just two within a rolling THREE YEAR period. Bearing in mind the parameters for a fine are also variable. So one family can book, say, just three days off, and be ok. But another family gets fined and begins the path to the court hearing! For “crime” number three, it’s an automatic referral to magistrates. And take a local authority like Staffordshire who will fine parents for just TWO DAYS OFF - they’re not the only one.

Hoppinggreen · 03/12/2024 18:24

CurryNRedWine · 03/12/2024 18:22

…and this, folks, is why the petition exists! Because you don’t get a choice over the criminal record and the path to it has been royally lubed up! Under the old policy, yes you could just pay the fine, but since August this year, there is now a cap on the fines of just two within a rolling THREE YEAR period. Bearing in mind the parameters for a fine are also variable. So one family can book, say, just three days off, and be ok. But another family gets fined and begins the path to the court hearing! For “crime” number three, it’s an automatic referral to magistrates. And take a local authority like Staffordshire who will fine parents for just TWO DAYS OFF - they’re not the only one.

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So don't do it then

CurryNRedWine · 03/12/2024 18:52

Hoppinggreen · 03/12/2024 18:24

So don't do it then

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Which comes back to my original point. Some families CANNOT access family time over the school holidays. You must believe that some children do not deserve time with their parents. Good luck for the state and health of society if everyone believed the same as you. I take comfort from considering that this is highly unlikely.

RosieLeaf · 03/12/2024 18:59

CurryNRedWine · 03/12/2024 18:52

Which comes back to my original point. Some families CANNOT access family time over the school holidays. You must believe that some children do not deserve time with their parents. Good luck for the state and health of society if everyone believed the same as you. I take comfort from considering that this is highly unlikely.

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Most people don’t take holidays in term time so not sure that’s correct. Even if people signed your petition, it would make squat all difference. It’s not going to change. Rant as much as you like about your special circumstances, everyone has some type of special circumstances.

maddiemookins16mum · 03/12/2024 19:01

Ridiculous. Why not just word your thread 'sign this petition to allow every child a two full weeks off for any reason every term'.

CurryNRedWine · 03/12/2024 19:14

RosieLeaf · 03/12/2024 18:59

Most people don’t take holidays in term time so not sure that’s correct. Even if people signed your petition, it would make squat all difference. It’s not going to change. Rant as much as you like about your special circumstances, everyone has some type of special circumstances.

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I agree with you. Most people do not need to use term time for access to family time. So the Government is criminalising parents that make poor choices without consideration for education (which I fully accept does happen and needs measures to safeguard against) while ALSO criminalising parents who have no choice.

Such as the poor mum from our support group, diagnosed with cancer and underwent chemo over the entire summer hols, was fined for accessing quality time with her children as soon as she was well enough to do so.

Notwithstanding the fact she had no choice over that series of events, imagine the impact on her kids. Seeing her unwell. Knowing they’re at risk of losing her. You’d think some humanity would prevail. Nope. She was fined, as was her husband. One strike down, one strike left over these next three years. Despicable.

Saying petitions make no difference is all well and good. But the speediest way to achieve F all, is to do F all. Democracy isn’t a spectator sport for me.

Our daughter’s school supported our absence before the Oct half term - so I could sit pretty and think ‘I’m alright Jack’ - but I can’t do that. I care too greatly that many schools don’t support genuine family need which is why I campaign nonetheless.

Parents and children deserve time together - even when they face genuine limitation to achieve that. Under this exceptionally punitive policy, many more families will miss out and it’s our kids that will pay the price. It’s such a disgrace. No one should be ok with that.

Hoppinggreen · 03/12/2024 19:37

CurryNRedWine · 03/12/2024 18:52

Which comes back to my original point. Some families CANNOT access family time over the school holidays. You must believe that some children do not deserve time with their parents. Good luck for the state and health of society if everyone believed the same as you. I take comfort from considering that this is highly unlikely.

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Read the responses, I think you will find that I am not the only one who thinks that parents must send their child to school as required or face a fine. I have seen first hand as a Governor the disruption caused by term time absences.
What I believe in is that ALL children deserve a good education and that does involve going to school
Family time CAN happen without children missing school and if you feel its not then you have to face the consequences as all of us do when we make decisions to do something that is illegal

VeryQuaintIrene · 03/12/2024 20:10

"Sound like a piss-take to you??" It does a bit.

CurryNRedWine · 04/12/2024 16:56

NeverDropYourMooncup · 03/12/2024 17:54

Your desire to have cheaper holidays or being all sad because your husband has chosen to not be around you or your children for more than Christmas Day, Boxing Day and Easter Sunday/Monday does not win hearts and minds in the way you think it should.

What was stopping him at Christmas when accountancy practices close for two weeks? What prevented him from doing something in August? Was there no value to weekends or evenings or did he avoid them then as well?

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Firstly, I must thank you for the ab workout I benefited from as a consequence of laughing at this utterly clueless, magnificently blinkered statement.

Closed for two weeks at Christmas?! At his BUSIEST time? Approaching the January tax deadline? Errrrr….no.

He has started a successful business. What a tremendous thing to role model to his children. He wanted to be an accountant as a child. He always knew he wanted to run his own practice from a very young age. He pursued his goals. Through grit, determination, personal risk and hard work, he’s done it. Yep. Proud wife over here.

Because he’s self-employed he does benefit from day-to-day flexibility which means he supports my work hours and does nursery drop-off or after-school collection, supports the children’s hobbies etc. We’re lucky, we do manage to spend evenings and weekends together. We do nice things with that time. Lucky us - because many families don’t have that opportunity! And that’s why I campaign - because it’s not just about me. It’s about understanding the diversity of family need.

It sounds like you’re saying children only deserve/need those snatched moments of time with their parents (weekends/evenings)? I’m interested to hear how much quality time you had with your own parents?

For us, as for many families, actually being away from work for a period of time for sustained, restorative family time is hard to achieve.

Not to mention the many scenarios where circumstances are beyond control as well.

This thread has been a real eye-opener regarding how people can really struggle to even contemplate someone else’s situation. Sad really.