Reduce or remove Staff discounts at Independent Schools.

[SchoolRunDays]

Historically staff at fee paying independent schools have received significant discounts on fees for their own children (I’ve heard ranging from 10% discount up to 85%)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/26/private-schools-make-cuts-state-teachers-vat-raid-reeves/

At the independent school my daughter attends the discount for staff is 50% of the fee so if monthly fee is £2000 staff will pay £1000 if academic year costs £24000 staff will pay £12,000.

No parents ever raised an eyebrow it was never questioned until now.

The Labour introduction of 20% VAT sending panic through communities.

School have informed they cannot “absorb” this cost. Question parents are asking is “why not?” Where’s all the money going.

counting heads and realising just how many staff children are holding places (right throughout the school). Many families with multiple in attendance. Doing the math each child representing a potential 50% loss of revenue. Each child costing the school £12,000 pear year!

Are we really living in a time where there are no other staff available that we have to incentivise positions!?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13660725/amp/Education-Secretary-Bridget-Phillipson-parents-warning-Labours-VAT-raid-private-school-fees.html

Rather than full-fee-paying families having to leave school the staff discount needs to be reduced, removed or abolished.

Independent families under a Labour government simply cannot afford such extravagant discounts.

Staff at private schools do not need to send their children to their place of work. It’s a want not a need.

#VATonfees #PrivateSchoolTax #Labour

If they want to they should understand the unprecedented current political situation and accept new contracts with revised/removed discount on fees.

They can choose to stay and pay more online with parents suffering the 20% VAT or remove their children and free up spaces so the school can generate a full revenue per place.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/labour-private-school-fees-vat-tax-when-b2583658.htmlLabour Tax

BEFORE you remove your children from independent school. Fight for them*

Labour have made it clear school must make cuts that there’s no reason for annual price hikes, no reason to pass on the VAT to parents.

No reason bar the fact they are losing hundreds of thousands of pounds offering all-staff outrageous fee discounts.

Bursaries and scholarships are earned under strict admission criteria and few and far between. Take a moment to count heads of staff kids within your school. It’s a very different situation. If they want the privilege of discount their children should apply and be tested like everyone else.

Who to complain to?

Not the school the teachers, the headteachers the finance department the very people in charge of your payments all have a conflict of interest.

If their children are in school and they’re receiving a 50% discount do you believe they will help you to remove it? No They’re protecting themselves and the school(staff) families best interests.

School parents must petition via governors, lawyers and the media to expose what is going on.

#RemoveStaffDiscount #ProtectMyOwn #NewSchoolPolicy #EqualityInFees #LabourVAT

Parents don’t need to take their children out of independent education because of the VAT. Schools need to reduce or remove all unnecessary staff discounts and absorb the cost. Not pass it on to fee paying parents. Schools need to make internal tough decisions and efficiencies

If you're interested, there's an article here about how effective or otherwise paying in advance may be too avoid VAT. https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/05/09/private_school_vat_risk/

A friend of mine has just paid all her fees in advance for 2 children, one hasn't started yet, as part of her divorce settlement! That must have been a lot of money...

Hilarious thread 10/10 op!

Honestly the best bit about vat on school fees is observing the outraged response from parents. Pay it or move your kids. It's really simple. State school is not the end of the world. Parents in the state sector work and need wraparound care too, we hold our schools to high standards and we expect sport and creativity to be nurtured too.

Honestly the best bit about vat on school fees is observing the outraged response from parents. Pay it or move your kids. It's really simple. State school is not the end of the world. Parents in the state sector work and need wraparound care too, we hold our schools to high standards and we expect sport and creativity to be nurtured too.

The "best bit"? You are delighting in parents being worried about the disruptive nature of this policy? You are pleased that parents are upset? What a nasty response towards parents who aren't affecting you.

"High standards"? The only schools with space near us are inadequate, requires improvement, or "good" where around 10-15% gain grade 4 in GCSE maths and English. That's certainly not my idea of high standards.

Sport and creativity? Our catchment school doesn't even offer GCSE music. Sport is extremely limited. Perhaps you're lucky to be in an area with excellent state schools. Many of us are not.

@Another76543 the absolute hyperbole and scaremongering is so ridiculous taht the best way to deal with it is to laugh.

I feel sorry for children in any school, private or state, who have their education interrupted and are forced abruptly to leave their friends and start over.

That's not something any of us should be wishing on anyone's children, especially at senior school level where making new friends is more difficult and children are sitting important exams.

Personally I think it would be more appropriate for the policy to be implemented prospectively, for children who haven't yet started at a particular school. That way parents have the opportunity to plan to ensure educational continuity for their children, whether private or state.

Good Afternoon All,

The greatest tragedy for any human being is going through their entire lives believing the only perspective that matters is their own.

This MN is heavily sympathetic to the plight of teachers (and I get it) If this were post lock down and anyone was attacking “teachers” I’d agree teachers/NHS but…

I will reiterate THIS IS NOT ABOUT TEACHERS, this is about STAFF *OP original post read it.

If you believe under this new government it is acceptable to continue with such huge STAFF (not teachers but STAFF) discounts then you are seeing things only from your own distorted perspective.

Independent school staff have delusions of grandeur they’re no different to state school staff. That’s what must be realised.

Look at the arrogance, distain, disrespect these post represent it sums up many staff at independent schools.

Champagne lifestyle, lemonade budget how dare you mock parents of children attending independent schools “pay VAT or leave to state school”

Theyre subsidising your children’s fees! Without their money covering your discount/s you wouldn’t even have option to attend!

Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is? most of those you’re disrespecting have spent years paying into the school pot subsidising your children’s fees.

There’s a new era, a new government who are telling independent schools clearly since 2021, stop spending, stop wasting. Economise.

If staff are struggling to keep their children at an independent school WITH A 50% DISCOUNT they have no reason being there.

If reduction to their OUTRAGEOUS discounts will price them/their families/their children out of the market then it is most definitely they who should leave.

It’s this attitude of entitlement within staff of Independent schools that you simply do not find at state schools. They’re trying to be something they’re not and it’s costing people money. Of course people are talking about this! Of course there’s resentment. Rightfully they want to spend their own money on their own children.

If staff pay a full fee for their children everyone is equal everyone is welcome. If staff can’t contribute and reduce this ridiculous discount by -10,20,30% independent school is not for them. Humility is in recognising the new circumstance, the new government and embracing change.

Parents petition governors protect your own children and their futures. No staff are greater than the institution. Let them accept a revision to their discounts or leave. Freeing up space for schools (businesses) to actually make money. No one is indispensable. No one greater than the institution.

If parents stand together and threaten to walk en mass unless discounts are reduced, governors will listen.

“Independent school staff have delusions of grandeur they’re no different to state school staff. That’s what must be realised.”

They are different @SchoolRunDays - they’re paid less and often without the pension scheme. If you’d rather even it out by giving them a pay rise and better conditions but taking away the discount, you’ll still have to pay more to cover it!

Do you have a problem paying full
price for other goods and services when staff get staff discount?

"They're trying to be something they're not". Wow. Just wow.

@SchoolRunDays so if the independent school staff have 'delusions of grandeur' is this not also you? Which parents does this apply to and which are above this claim? How do you distinguish and what is the difference? Aren't they all parents who think sending their children to that school is the best in their circumstances? For staff it may mean they can actually work there as childcare for pre and after school if they had to leave them elsewhere would mean the job was impossible. I'm struggling to see how your definition works for you. Do you have to have a certain salary or live in a particular area before your desire to send your child to independent school is considered reasonable? It's the most ridiculous statement among many you've made

Wow. Replace "school staff" with "parents" and then "subsidies/discounts" with "VAT" and I think you've summed yourself up OP.

Arrogance and disdain? You've got it in buckets.

To say nothing of your backtracking. It's not just the apparently undeserving "staff" you were complaining about earlier, you included teachers too. Which way do you want it?

Academia is not short of teachers. If staff are not happy with revision or removal of this discount which is no longer viable, which is not efficient at-all! Independent schools can easily replace them with the pool of outstanding teachers happy to sign contract with a school policy which does not have outrageous staff-discounts.

It doesn't matter how often anyone tells you, you're not paying for those places. Most schools won't be turning away fee-paying pupils. Those pupils who are children of teachers/staff aren't costing you anything.

Maybe take your own advice? If you can't afford the 20% VAT you have no reason for your children being there.

Whoops, messed up my quote there. This is what you said earlier OP:

Academia is not short of teachers. If staff are not happy with revision or removal of this discount which is no longer viable, which is not efficient at-all! Independent schools can easily replace them with the pool of outstanding teachers happy to sign contract with a school policy which does not have outrageous staff-discounts.

Its good job that the OP doesn't know any teachers with tied accommodation, she would be wanting them to pay full rent prices.

If parents stand together and threaten to walk en mass unless discounts are reduced, governors will listen.

Where would you move your dcs @SchoolRunDays ?
And why don’t you do that asap?

If you’re not happy with the service the school is selling you, then you change providers.
Same than with an accountant, a hairdresser etc…
It’s not up to you to decide how they run their business. Unless you are on the board of governors (and then you’ll have much more influence).

You can try to haggle the price (because that’s what it’s about - getting a lower price for school fees than the 20% increase planned) but I don’t think education is an area where that sort of started y works best.

Fwiw if you feel the school isn’t handling finances properly, why are your dcs still there, regardless of the VAT increase? I’d have been worried that said school would have folded if they are that reckless.
Seriously.
When I chose the private school for my dcs, we had the choice between two of them. And the financial viability was part of the criteria. Because basically, a school well run financially actually also meant better facilities … and it also meant no issues when covid hit and all children needed a laptop (provided by the school for everyone ….). They reviewed the entire ventilation system before school started again etc….

*Independent school staff have delusions of grandeur they’re no different to state school staff. That’s what must be realised.

Look at the arrogance, distain, disrespect these post represent it sums up many staff at independent schools.*

Op, you hate the teachers and support staff at your children's school. I mean, you are spitting with fury about them.

I'm baffled why you want to keep sending your kids there if the staff are so awful. It doesn't make any sense. If they're no different from state school staff, just move your kids to a state school and save lots of money?

Delusions of grandeur 😂😂😂😂😂

I shall remove my crown and jewels to type the below:

Please, nobody tell OP about the ‘free’ lunch and ‘free holidays’ (with their added bonus of 50 hormonal teenagers).

OP, I work outside of the UK. 100% fee reduction, free lunch, a full medical once a year and I don’t know how to tell you this but we get paid a daily rate on top of our salary for trips. Imagine! Stealing from the students whose parents have paid!

(on a serious note, a couple of international schools here tried to sack off their staff discount and it did, as expected, lead to staff leaving in droves. The only result was inconsistency for the kids and a decline in external exam results)

I think she might be upset that she couldn’t get a job at her DC’s school…..

OP I think your children are going to need the very best teachers if your addled thinking is what they have to cope with at home. I can't see much decent critical thinking happening around your tea table!

That is probably the most insightful post on this thread...it would explain a lot of the OP's strange logic. I'm guessing that that's why she has been volunteering in state schools as well.

If it's not about teachers, then is this an attack on dinner ladies?

Good grief!

Honestly of all the things to actually start a petition about!

Not the best informed OP saying there’s no shortage of teachers. No genius. For so many, many reasons.

And some obvious snobbiness of not wanting teachers’ children educated alongside other fee paying pupils. Those teachers would be so invested in it being a good school. But we mustn’t let them get above their station.

Grim opinions.

Well that was the best answer to the 20% increase wasn’t it?
Getting a job at the school would have solved most issues.

Haha yes I guessed that upthread as well.

Here’s a funny one.

The icing on the cake!

Parents were talking and let’s say the fight to get reduction in the ridiculous staff fee discounts is not won…

Someone then pointed out

So when VAT arrives…

All these staff discounts, all the children of staff within our school…

Are they going to be paying VAT on the full fee or half?

or are they going to be paying HALF (50%) fee + HALF (50%) VAT

are we parents going to be subsidising 50% of their fee PLUS 50% of their VAT!!!?

Parents have received zero, no information what so ever at our independent school! Labour are say VAT is arriving as one of their main priorities some say by January 2025!

How can anyone not find this absolutely ridiculous! Any spare funds in the account need to go towards protecting families who’ve paid in and need help to absorb the VAT.

Its a new government and school policy requires an overhaul.

@SchoolRunDays

I'm beginning to think you might be a troll.

"I will reiterate THIS IS NOT ABOUT TEACHERS, this is about STAFF *OP original post read it."

Many private schools do not offer a fee discount to all staff. It's often only teaching staff or other senior staff. You cannot, for example, work as a cleaner for a few hours a week and receive a fee discount. Admin staff for example normally don't receive a discount.

"Independent school staff have delusions of grandeur they’re no different to state school staff. That’s what must be realised."

Many are just doing a job to put food on the table. There are no delusions of grandeur.

"There’s a new era, a new government who are telling independent schools clearly since 2021, stop spending, stop wasting. Economise."

Hiring decent teachers with an attractive compensation package is not "wasting".

"If staff are struggling to keep their children at an independent school WITH A 50% DISCOUNT they have no reason being there."

You could argue that about any parent who can no longer afford the fee. What about those on bursaries? What about talented children on bursaries whose parents can no longer afford fees? Do they have no reason being there?

"If reduction to their OUTRAGEOUS discounts will price them/their families/their children out of the market then it is most definitely they who should leave."

Losing excellent members of staff, who could often walk into a well paid non-teaching job in other areas of the economy will never be a good thing.

"If staff pay a full fee for their children everyone is equal everyone is welcome. If staff can’t contribute and reduce this ridiculous discount by -10,20,30% independent school is not for them. Humility is in recognising the new circumstance, the new government and embracing change."

They might not be able to afford an effective pay cut.

"Parents petition governors protect your own children and their futures."

This is madness. Of all the things to request schools economise on, excellent teaching staff is not the thing.

"If parents stand together and threaten to walk en mass unless discounts are reduced, governors will listen."

Alternatively, petition your MP to try to get this ridiculous policy stopped. Aim your anger at the spiteful policy makers, not hard working teachers.

The policy is not going to raise a meaningful amount of money. It could even end up costing the taxpayer. Scrapping the policy altogether is a much better idea than encouraging schools to economise on staff, leading to redundancies.

"Are they going to be paying VAT on the full fee or half?"

They'll pay VAT on the amount they are invoiced (ie the reduced amount). It's still a 20% increase in fees.

"are we parents going to be subsidising 50% of their fee PLUS 50% of their VAT!!!?"

You won't be subsidising them. Say you pay £20k a year. You pay £4K VAT. A teacher is charged £10k, they pay £2k. If their discount is removed, they pay £4K. The amount of VAT you pay isn't going to be affected by the amount they pay.

"Parents have received zero, no information what so ever at our independent school! Labour are say VAT is arriving as one of their main priorities some say by January 2025!"

Of course no sensible school could give detail. They don't know how the policy is going to implemented, or when. There are too many variables to be able to plan with any detail.

"How can anyone not find this absolutely ridiculous!

The only thing I find ridiculous is the Labour policy.

"It's a new government and school policy requires an overhaul."

The new government needs to re-look at the ill thought out policy. It's disrupting children, parents and staff for no gain.