Reduce or remove Staff discounts at Independent Schools.

[SchoolRunDays]

Historically staff at fee paying independent schools have received significant discounts on fees for their own children (I’ve heard ranging from 10% discount up to 85%)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/26/private-schools-make-cuts-state-teachers-vat-raid-reeves/

At the independent school my daughter attends the discount for staff is 50% of the fee so if monthly fee is £2000 staff will pay £1000 if academic year costs £24000 staff will pay £12,000.

No parents ever raised an eyebrow it was never questioned until now.

The Labour introduction of 20% VAT sending panic through communities.

School have informed they cannot “absorb” this cost. Question parents are asking is “why not?” Where’s all the money going.

counting heads and realising just how many staff children are holding places (right throughout the school). Many families with multiple in attendance. Doing the math each child representing a potential 50% loss of revenue. Each child costing the school £12,000 pear year!

Are we really living in a time where there are no other staff available that we have to incentivise positions!?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13660725/amp/Education-Secretary-Bridget-Phillipson-parents-warning-Labours-VAT-raid-private-school-fees.html

Rather than full-fee-paying families having to leave school the staff discount needs to be reduced, removed or abolished.

Independent families under a Labour government simply cannot afford such extravagant discounts.

Staff at private schools do not need to send their children to their place of work. It’s a want not a need.

#VATonfees #PrivateSchoolTax #Labour

If they want to they should understand the unprecedented current political situation and accept new contracts with revised/removed discount on fees.

They can choose to stay and pay more online with parents suffering the 20% VAT or remove their children and free up spaces so the school can generate a full revenue per place.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/labour-private-school-fees-vat-tax-when-b2583658.htmlLabour Tax

BEFORE you remove your children from independent school. Fight for them*

Labour have made it clear school must make cuts that there’s no reason for annual price hikes, no reason to pass on the VAT to parents.

No reason bar the fact they are losing hundreds of thousands of pounds offering all-staff outrageous fee discounts.

Bursaries and scholarships are earned under strict admission criteria and few and far between. Take a moment to count heads of staff kids within your school. It’s a very different situation. If they want the privilege of discount their children should apply and be tested like everyone else.

Who to complain to?

Not the school the teachers, the headteachers the finance department the very people in charge of your payments all have a conflict of interest.

If their children are in school and they’re receiving a 50% discount do you believe they will help you to remove it? No They’re protecting themselves and the school(staff) families best interests.

School parents must petition via governors, lawyers and the media to expose what is going on.

#RemoveStaffDiscount #ProtectMyOwn #NewSchoolPolicy #EqualityInFees #LabourVAT

Parents don’t need to take their children out of independent education because of the VAT. Schools need to reduce or remove all unnecessary staff discounts and absorb the cost. Not pass it on to fee paying parents. Schools need to make internal tough decisions and efficiencies

This is crazy. It’s an incentive, why wouldn’t you want good teachers?! State schools often pay better and have far better pension schemes hence why private schools give staff a discount. Lots of state schools give admission priority to children of staff because logistically it often makes sense, another incentive.

Is op representative of other private school parents do you think?

A lot of the posters on the numerous VAT threads have not been a good advert for parents who chose private education 😆

Your budget OP. Your choices.

👆🏼

One parent (probably), just one
Not a bunch, just this one

As well as 100% agreeing with @foothandmouth,
I actually teach in a private school (but am leaving) and the pay is shit. Well below state pay unless you are in central London. 'Perks' are the extra holiday but it's just not worth it. I could also get a staff discount for sending my children to the school but on my pay it still wouldn't be possible to me to afford this. (Plus the state schools near me are far better than any private options in this area anyway...)

I’m glad my schools parents aren’t like that.

during the first lockdown when lots of parents were struggling to pay the fees some of the more wealthy parents paid extra to cover them so no one would have to leave.

@Yalta 56 in your primary school class?! In the days where kids would sit still and "be told" a lot more I guess. Like lots of countries where school is more about being drilled - we're lucky our system (independent obviously but state too as far as is possible with the numbers) is so focussed on individualised learning - our teachers are such an asset and I'm so pleased this thread is shouting that so clearly!

You cannot means test benefits that an employer choses to offer to it's staff - what sort of madness is that?!? It's abolsutely nothing to do with you. You're going to hate this, but all sorts of employers offer staff discounts that can be worth much more than a cheap school place - which, at marginal cost, is probably worth a few £K or less. Work at a UK retailer? Up to 20% off. Work for an airline? Up to 90% off. Work for a car manufacturer? Up to 33% off. Work for a housebuilder Up to 10% off. Do you want to stick your nose into all of these private arrangements as well, just because you can't afford a first class trip to Australia for your family, or £150k for a nice car?

I am sorry if you can't afford the additional cost of private education if VAT is added...but it'll actually only be 15% or so of the fees so, what, £4/5/6k? Hardlly the end of the world. I bet that a lot less than 10% of people will withdraw from private school as a result of this change

You cannot means test benefits that an employer choses to offer to it's staff - what sort of madness is that?!?

Indeed. I don't think op has much experience of paid work. It would be really not on for them to give discounts to only the less wealthy teachers: it's part of the salary package, it's part of the renumeration for working there.

It's like, say, if everyone at work gets a bonus for christmas but someone says "I don't think Jane from accounts should get the bonus because she has a wealthy husband". Bonkers. Your work isn't valued less if you're wealthy.

So you’re definitely going to take your children (their “business”) elsewhere if the school continues to support their teacher’s children?

How many times are you prepared to move your child?

Not quite the same as not going to the same restaurant is it?

I don’t think the OP is reflective of any other person to be honest.

You don't think 4k is a lot of money? That's twice my holiday budget. With the double whammy of teacher pension contributions and VAT, more like 30-40% increase in the space of three years. That's 7k. Double that for 2 kids - £14 k. That's more than I was paying for one child for a whole year 5 years ago! LIt's not worth it any more. Or else the school pulls out of the pension scheme, in which case, it isn't worth it for the teacher any more.

No, I don’t think £4k is a lot if one’s spending £25/£35k a year per child on school fees. In absolute terms for someone on minimum wage, sure it’s a lot of money. But if people don’t think it’s worth it, then don’t subscribe to a private school. No one is entitled to a place - the very definition of private is that it’s paid for, with money and therefore anyone who has enough, or prioritises it enough, can buy it.

In percentage terms inflation has been a total of just over 20% in the last 3 years, and pay has increased faster. So I’m not surprised school fees have gone up by 30% plus if you throw in VAT as well. Plenty of other non essential things have gone up a lot more than that in the same time frame - cars, flights, hotels cleaners, PTs, builders…the list goes on That’s life - we all have to make choices

Pay has increased by 20 % over the last three years WHERE..?

Bloody hilarious OP!

Doesn't matter if a restaurant maintains a great chef if no one pays the bills! Customer is king.

I mean… you understand that if you turn up at a restaurant which has sacked their chefs, you’re not getting fed, right?

Teachers are really quite important to a school…

percentage terms inflation has been a total of just over 20% in the last 3 years, and pay has increased faster

Whose pay?

I'm not paying £25/35. I'm also not complaining, but I'm questioning this idea that because the cost of everything else has gone up, and because people had committed to spending a large amount, that they won't notice or mind spending 15-20% more. I'm meeting a lot of parents saying something like 'I'm reluctant to disrupt my child, but this VAT things is taking us over the limit of what we'd planned/ saved up/ were comfortable with spending'. So, yes, people probably won't leave, but my prediction is that applications will be down. Small schools will close. At primary level especially, people will be opting for state unless it's absolutely dire.

Well, the living wage has gone up nearly 30% in that time, from £8.91 in 2021 to £11.44 this year. Annual earnings growth was around 6% in 2022, and a little higher in 2023. 2024 numbers aren’t out yet but it’s fair to assume they’ll be similar. 3 years at 6.5% compounded is a little over 20%. But fo course those at the bottom will have benefited more, because of the growth in the living wage. Those in the middle will have benefited because of index-linked in-work benefits. Those earning too much for government subsidy or legislation have seen pay rise slower.

Now look at public sector pay and try that sum again.

You’re missing the most important point - as there is a perfectly adequate free option to private education, no one is forcing any parent to fork out for school.
The few teachers I know that work in private schools earn less than their counterparts in the state sector and have worse pension provision. Plus they have to deal with over entitled kids and parents day in day out.

Surely good staff make the school?
Retaining good teachers who will get the best results for your children is why you're paying, no?

Well, according to the House of Commons Library public sector pay increased by 5% in 2022 and between 5% and 7% in 2023. Add the 5.5% mooted for 2024 and you are at not far off 19% on a compound basis...

Also: "In April 2023, median weekly earnings for full-time employees in the public sector were 8% higher than those in the private sector"

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8037/

You can say “according to” as much as you like but with lived experience I got 2% in 2022/3 (below inflation) and a more generous 5% last year. Even with a decent rise this year it’s no where near the 20% (low end of your estimation) to 30% cited.

For all this talk about pay rises. The term that is most overlooked is is "average".
Also what is overlooked is that many teachers didn't get a pay rise as the school budgets couldn't be stretched to give them a pay rise.