Labour’s plans for VAT on Private Schools

[Busydadof2]

The Labour Party has proposed introduction of VAT on private schools.

In the scheme of things the money they will bring in from this is tiny compared with total expenditure on state schools, while it will drive more burden on the state system as some parents leave private schools. I think this is a populist ploy to get traditional Labour voters to vote for what is in any other sense a centrist party.

Have you considered signing this petition to make sure the policy gets scrutinised and the weight of public sentiment against it is known?

Change.org petition: Stop Labour from adding 20% VAT to private school fees and forcing kids to change schools

www.change.org/p/stop-labour-from-adding-20-vat-to-private-school-fees-and-forcing-kids-to-change-schools

Various perspectives from the signatories of this vote come to mind and resonate with our own situation, including this: “I work in a state school with over 30 in a class and oversubscribed. My 2 kids went or go to private schools and we have sacrificed loads to do this. We are NOT wealthy, many of the kids at the school I work at live in bigger houses and have much more disposable income than we do. We chose to send our kids to private school rather than live in a bigger house instead of our semi detached on a main road. We holiday in the UK every year and I work full time. I buy my clothes on the high street or in charity shops. Many parents at the school my kids attend are in exactly the same situation. I agree there are some very wealthy parents there too and the addition of VAT will not even make an impact on them, they will pay it without batting an eyelid. All this will do is push the kids like ours back into an already oversubscribed state system, increase class sizes even more and create a bigger divide as private education will become truly elitist.”

@Naptrappedmummy

State schools are not 'garbage.' What a vile thing to say. They're underfunded and operating under a curriculum and qualification agenda that is detrimental to the wider economy and practically abusive to many children.

No. I didn’t say it was - my post was in response to a poster who suggested making all parents contribute towards education.

Anyway, it’s not about “fault”, it is about whether the country should sanction a tax break for the richest for a choice they have freely exercised in a scenario where that choice is already buying their kids an unfair advantage over those who are not able to pay for it.

Education is important for a countries economic development. It is economics 101.
Private schools are not necessary for a countries economic development and there are private schools which provide a very poor education as well as those that provide a good education.

Saying things like this really doesn't help win people over you know. The schools my kids go to aren't garbage. There are huge things that absolutely could improve, the buildings are practically falling down, the teachers are run ragged and some behaviour is not ideal but the school is absolutely not garbage.

State schools are far from garbage. They're horrifically underfunded. I'd say a teacher dealing successfully everyday with a class of 30+ in a building that's falling down and without support is incredibly skilled.

Of course everyone in society should contribute towards education. We all benefit. And those who have more should contribute more. That is a fact.

I am yet to hear any one share the plan/vision for improving state schools though. With our (taxpayers) money. And given that private parents will be paying an extra 20% more than others to support the state system - in addition to also paying more tax in general - can we at least get an answer to what that plan is?

State schools have been - generally, not in every case, of course - dire for decades. Through long stretches of both Tory and Labour governments; with increased spending and reduced spending.

It’s just not true that money is the problem. Or the curriculum. I read an article some years ago by a researcher who found that standards of grammar and vocabulary in letters sent home by ordinary young soldiers in the trenches of WWI is higher than modern school leavers’.

The problem with state schools is a reluctance (within a straitjacket) to discipline and exclude disruptive pupils, and a tolerance of disdain for academic achievement.

No, you won’t be paying an extra 20% to support the state system, you’ll be paying an extra 20% to remove your child from that system. That is not the same thing.

Countries without private schools have better state schools. You only need to look at Northern Ireland to see that is the case.

Northern Ireland has proportionally a lot of grammars doesn’t it?

You are looking backwards at this.

You are talking about limiting good education for those that can pay.

Why is state education not the better of the two? Money? The money this change will bring isn’t going to change this.

It’s the desire to drag down someone. It’s class warfare fought on the backs of children whose lives will be uprooted.

It’s Schadenfreude, pure and simple.

They’re not comparable to English grammars - >50% of kids go to a “grammar”.

The point is that there are no private options and there are many more high quality state schools which consistently outperform English schools, including many private schools.

Thanks. What defines a NI grammar? Is there selection?

No one wants to drag down kids.

But really as a country we need to decide whether we should be subsidising the wealthiest at the expense of the less wealthy. Of course the money saved is not going to revolutionise state education, but it is better that it goes into the government coffers than not.

I'm afraid that is wrong. Labour has expressly said the objective of the VAT is to increase funding to state schools and they have even stated some vague areas they want to spend the money on.

So whilst some other countries have a minimal private sector (e.g. Denmark), the general tax burden is higher for everyone and the mean wage is higher as well. Clearly none of the parties have a solution to this issue.
Labour is harping on this to appeal to those that think levelling down is the way to go about it. It is divisive but most importantly does not address the problem.

And yes, we are directly funding state schools with our extra VAT tax + higher tax in general + not using our state place. So I will demand and hold them to account for how they spend my money to improve the education of the 94%

They won't be paying an extra 20% more than others. They will be paying an extra 20% on top of an optional fee that they have chosen to pay.

@ChardonnaysBeastlyCat why is it a desire to drag others down? It's a desire to get more tax income isn't it? Private schools aren't being banned. Are all taxes desires to drag people down or just this one?

I hope you have also been holding the Tories to account for the last 10+ years in how they are spending your money in educating the 94%. Or are you happy with that at the moment?

Quite.

There is so much faux concern for the poor and the state educated and the state system on this thread… posters only care about themselves and their own kids and their own bank accounts, which is totally fine and understandable but don’t pretend otherwise.

Yes there is selection but a much higher proportion of kids get in at 11 (c45%) and then there is another huge entry point for sixth form.

Thanks.

A strongly selective state system I can get behind. 👍

Yes indeed and the private schools as well. The difference is the number of people thinking that this will level up state schooling or happy that some may be priced out (politics of jealousy) and Labour knowing fully well that these emotions can be exploited for votes. Not a new trick in electioneering.

To be clear - I am happy (more than happy) to pay the VAT. I do demand that everyone critically questions Labour on their plans for state education and charging 20% VAT on private schools is not the solution. It clearly makes many people feel better 🙂. Maybe that in itself is enough for many

Just out of interest, what have the Tories been doing to help state education/what do they plan to do?

Do you think it is more or less than what Labour say they will do?

And more grammar schools I believe would level up education for more people. But as I said upthread, there was significant backlash against that when Teresa May tried to push ahead with that. It seems people wont be happy until the whole population is in the same boat - which is not what equality is

Never going to work or happen. Too few private & grammars for their closure to improve the states in any way. The only comprehensive school we lived in catchment for (couldn't afford to move to better catchment) was a genuinely unsafe, horrendous place dubbed "knife academy".
My parents worked long jobs & in the evenings sat down with me & some textbooks and I studied SO HARD to get into grammar (started studying hours a night approx aged 7).
Grammar did wonders for me. The local comprehensive didn't offer a levels, but through grammar I got AAA & went to a top university.
Of course I want to see state comprehensives improved & that's where we should be focusing our resources, but the grammar school offered the A levels that got me where I wanted to go (comprehensive didn't offer A levels) and the comprehensive focused on more vocational courses, which works for others.
Please don't put grammars in the same boat!

Labour have a flagship policy for education that is a non-policy and they are not even in yet. They fought and opposed the expansion of grammar schools - which would have provided access to selective education for many more. So here we are fire-fighting. I dont know what the Tories, LibDems etc have planned for education and when I come to decide who to vote for - best believe I will scrutinise their policies and track record carefully. I am aware of the Labour plan because of the panic of some private school patients and the glee of some 'pro-levelling down' brigade.

I get the panic - they may be priced out and I hope they/their schools find options that work well for these kids. I also understand those who simply support it cos it improves Treasury coffers by any proportion. But I dont get those supporting the policy as some sort of equality tool/contrasting private schools to homeless kids etc. It will not help you and yours so if you are a single issue voter - this aint it! Challenge them to do more and maybe they will be forced to come up with better solutions that work for the population

Alternatively, celebrate the VAT victory and continue in your underfunded schools whilst the rest of us continue in our elitist bubbles🤷‍♂️

It must be so hard to believe that there are people who will not be materially impacted by VAT addition and recognise the need for high standard state education for all and therefore the need to push our politicians (of any party) for real step-change. You can be wealthy, pay for private goods and services and socially responsible. The 2 are not mutually exclusive

@newmummycwharf1 I don't find it hard to believe that there are private school parents who support improving the state system. Bloody hell, we're in a thoroughly depressing society if the majority didn't want that. What I find hard to believe is that most of the people on threads like these, insisting Labour don't have a credible plan for education and needing more details in order to gain their trust and win their vote for them, aren't already conservatives through and through. Maybe that's not you, but this is laughable...
I dont know what the Tories, LibDems etc have planned for education and when I come to decide who to vote for best believe I will scrutinise their policies and track record carefully
The Tory party are in power NOW. it's not a new thing. If you aren't already aware of what the Tory parties plans are for education and what they have been doing for the last 10+ years then you've buried your head in the sand and not paid attention (because it's not affected you). I don't think Labour are amazing but we need change and we not going to get it continuing as we are.