Labour’s plans for VAT on Private Schools

[Busydadof2]

The Labour Party has proposed introduction of VAT on private schools.

In the scheme of things the money they will bring in from this is tiny compared with total expenditure on state schools, while it will drive more burden on the state system as some parents leave private schools. I think this is a populist ploy to get traditional Labour voters to vote for what is in any other sense a centrist party.

Have you considered signing this petition to make sure the policy gets scrutinised and the weight of public sentiment against it is known?

Change.org petition: Stop Labour from adding 20% VAT to private school fees and forcing kids to change schools

www.change.org/p/stop-labour-from-adding-20-vat-to-private-school-fees-and-forcing-kids-to-change-schools

Various perspectives from the signatories of this vote come to mind and resonate with our own situation, including this: “I work in a state school with over 30 in a class and oversubscribed. My 2 kids went or go to private schools and we have sacrificed loads to do this. We are NOT wealthy, many of the kids at the school I work at live in bigger houses and have much more disposable income than we do. We chose to send our kids to private school rather than live in a bigger house instead of our semi detached on a main road. We holiday in the UK every year and I work full time. I buy my clothes on the high street or in charity shops. Many parents at the school my kids attend are in exactly the same situation. I agree there are some very wealthy parents there too and the addition of VAT will not even make an impact on them, they will pay it without batting an eyelid. All this will do is push the kids like ours back into an already oversubscribed state system, increase class sizes even more and create a bigger divide as private education will become truly elitist.”

“how this country has been structured and its reliance on them
The country is reliant on people who are fundamental to society - doctors, nurses, teachers. In the rush to characterise high earners as the saviours of Britain, so many posters seem to be missing that some people are dedicated to public service and improving society in general.”

Yes of course that is true but the private sector taxation funds the public sector in this capitalist society. It would be different if health and education were not free and everyone paid for it out of their own wages.

I am not saying it is right that we are so over dependent on 500k higher earners but these are the people this will largely affect and a lot of them are quite mobile so if they are really against this tax and alter their behaviour drastically we are all screwed!
It’s such a huge anomaly internationally speaking, there is no sane precedent for it and other countries will welcome these earners and their sprog. You can’t deny they seem to have a lot of power? It’s obvious judging by the press alone. The fight with them is not in the best interests of the country! Especially not if it means no Single Market and a pittance in extra revenue raised.

In short, the best thing for us to do is to tell all our friends to register their child for their local state school. The reason being that the National Union of Teachers (NUT) are getting worried about not being able to provision children joining state and they will lobby to government.

It hasn't been called the NUT for years. It's the NEU. I'm a member and haven't heard anything about concerns regarding this. Members are mostly far more concerned with the damage done to the education system by the current government.

It's not sanctimonious to dislike the promotion of lying and time wasting - what's wrong with disliking dishonesty? It's a basic value we teach tiny children - don't lie.
And so what if some of your tax goes on state education? Like millions in this country, lots of my tax goes on things I don't use and much of it has been wasted on things I certainly don't agree with. Encouraging people to lie and waste public servants' time is despicable.

If someone is on half a million a year, I don't think a slight increase in their school fees will bring ruination on the country. Look at the state of it post-Brexit and after Tory rule - it's a total mess already. Again, if the price people have to pay for getting rid of this government is this VAT then on balance I think the majority of the electorate won't care too much. It's not a deal-breaker given the alternative.

This is such a stupid thing to say. You don’t pay taxes for specific school places. You pay for the children across the country to get educated. As do people who have NO children or 10 of them. I pay for unemployment benefit I don’t use, should I ring job centres in protest of tory policy to clog up the lines?

Here we go
China and Britain Face an Exodus of Millionaires, Study Shows - Bloomberg

Yes, school fees alone won't push someone on £500k out, but it's the entire attitude in this country, it's "soak the rich" culture.

I'd love to review this thread in 5 years time after Labours full term. To see taxes (pension, IHT, CGT, etc) placed on middle/higher earners who aren't rich enough to leave but will reduce hours/quit high demand jobs. How services won't improve because of structural problems with society etc. Labour's landslide is not because public like them, it's only hate for Tories, there is not a single sensible workable policy in Labour manifesto. At the moment it feels very real that the next protest vote will really go to Reform in next election. God help us

Lol. Interesting take on tax there. You think paying your taxes entitles you to behave in this way?

If you earn £180k per annum (top 1%), take home pay is 8-9k a month. Let's say £8.5k a month. So you pay £80k of that income in tax - twice the median income in tax. But some feel it is fair that you should be made to feel bad for spending your disposable income on education.

I really don't get how private school-using parents are the villains here.

Yes, poverty is rife but they already contribute a huge amount of their salaries to the pot. Infact, many refuse to earn these amounts because the net income on the pound does not seem worth it. Yet those who do, get vilified?

Yes, care workers and childcare staff should be paid better. Adult SEN should be better funded. That is not the fault of the person who has already given half of their income to the general pot, expecting the government to use it and their skill and expertise to ensure society works for all.

Yes we all pay taxes whether we use the service or not but surely not using the service leaves more for others to use? So in that way, my imaginary person is again helping.

They are not responsible for creating poverty, for all the ills in society. They are simply using the rest of the funds they have - having contributed half to the general pot. We should all be insisting the government funds education, health, social care properly. Fighting the so-called rich is a distraction

Make it make sense....

Predictions and speculation about what might happen 5 years into the future completely pale in the face of actual hard cold reality in the present which is that the UK is in a horrific state after 14 years of Tory government, and the vast majority of people are worse off.

What makes sense is to actually listen to most people who are not vilifying richer people but are in despair at the horrific poverty in the UK. HTH.

Yes- we should all be horrified at the poverty we see all around us. But I would have thought most of us (at least a significant percentage) are able to avoid conflating matters.

Being horrified at poverty and vilifying someone for using private education should be completely unrelated. A brief skim of this thread does not demonstrate that.

That is what does not make sense

The tax is framed in a punitive way - which really isn't helpful and is divisive. We all know schools are underfunded - progressively tax to increase revenue, find a way to increase productivity, growth - fair enough

But no - let's punish this small subset of people. Not helpful and also not helpful for alleviating poverty - so what is gained?

Apart from those parents who are driven to privately educate their children who have SEND which are not supported in the state sector, the majority of parents who send their children to private schools do so to confer advantage upon them which will improve their chances of becoming "high earners" in the future.

This relatively tiny number amongst our population inevitably go on to occupy positions of power and influence which enable them to protect their wealth and position at the expense of the rest of the population.

I think it is absolutely correct that we examine this disparity at its very source.

It's why I said that it makes sense to 'actually listen to most people who are not vilifying richer people'.

I have said I sympathise with any children whose school lives might be upended by this policy and asked if people would consider lobbying the actual schools for which I got flak.

I don't sympathise with posters immediately reaching for 'politics of envy' jibes, or who are encouraging people to lie and make chaos for their local councils for no good reason.

I'm not sure what a lot of ps posters want to achieve here really - if they actually want people other than those directly affected to sign a petition then they're alienating people with their tone. If they want people to not vote Labour just because of this policy, well then we're back to the fact that as most of the electorate are not too concerned about the policy and the country is in a dire state, that won't win them over either. And obviously - and thankfully - in a democracy everyone gets just one vote, no matter what their salary is or how much tax they pay.

It is not the increase alone, it is all that this vindictive tax and Keir starmer stand for that is making them start planning to leave. I have lived here 18 years and have just left a dinner where for the first time in all the years I have been here everyone at table admitted they are making plans to leave in the next couple of years if Labour come into government. These are the people who are making the biggest tax contributions and without them you can forget anything getting better in the NHS, social care, education etc etc there is no magic money tree!

The UK taxpayer already funds the income tax due on CEA payments so it’s just more wooden dollars.

Taxing that so-called advantage does not help though. It simply ingrained it further. You seem to assume that those squeezed out of private school by VAT are the ones who have power to preserve. I very much doubt that.

So let's tax them - and then they pay. It puts money towards 6500 teachers and mental health advisors and pays for free breakfast - brilliant if that works. Once they have paid that 20% and their taxes, can they enjoy their private education in peace? Or is there more you would like from them - please put all requests in now!

You will quickly see that the desired end is not what this policy will achieve.

I really don't think anyone wants to live in a society filled with what reads like resentment. Private school parents are not going anywhere. Parental choice of education is a good thing and we want more, not less of that. We should be agitating to improve all schools, to have a variety of schools that fit different types of children, support for the national cake to grow not fighting over crumbs.

I truly despair

And might I say, VAT, increase in fees, really will not affect us, even if they double. We have 7 years more in the system - matters neither here nor there. However, the fact that our family has access to options does not mean we are not aware of the lack of options for others. We speak up and out in our positions of influence and with our funds. So this isn't about me or really many in my close circle. The discussion just seems to miss the point - either private school parents desperately trying to badger labour to change their minds or state school parents gleefully excited that a very small percentage will finally be forced off their high horses.
Can't see how any of that benefits children or society in general. And the government (of any party) is left off the hook!

But it seems y'all are fixed on your sides so have at it. Enjoy!!

state school parents gleefully excited that a very small percentage will finally be forced off their high horses

That's such an obnoxious, paranoid and divisive comment.

I would bet that the vast majority of state school parents do not think like that, and couldn't care less about private schools - they just don't want to sacrifice the chance of better government for the sake of something that might affect a tiny percentage of the population.

I agree with you there - not sure what the desire is from the thread. I see 3 sides - those that want Labour to change their mind and those that want to vilify private education parents and blame them for all the ills of the world and lastly those that want people to vote against Labour. And I agree with you on tone

Ultimately, Labour are playing to the 'they have had it good for a long time and people are suffering so they need to pay their fair share' rhetoric. So they are playing to the politics of envy sentiment. Tories are playing to the protectionist sentiment - 'if you let them in, they will tax you to death'. Well, the Tories have taxed us to death anyway!

Personally, I really don't think this should factor into how people vote. Same as the NHS. It allows politicians to manipulate education and health for votes - despicable. However, we have the system we have. I can only hope that people shift their focus from the populace - and face the government. Taking away from your neighbour really does not help you.

I don't care if Joe Bloggs can do xyz for his children, good on him - unless he is stealing or doing something illegal. What can I do for mine? What can the government put in place to ensure I can do the best for mine? How can we provide equality of opportunity so everyone can aspire and thrive?

Ah goodnight - it will all work itself out

Not at all paranoid - 100s of comments in that vein on mumsnet and twitter. That does not mean everyone feels that way but some do and have expressed that verbatim. And similarly unhelpful opinions on the other side. The point is - we now have 2 sides against each other. Instead of us all holding the government to account

I hope it does work itself out. I'd add a fourth side - private school parents who think all state parents are just envious, that other people just don't work hard enough and that's why their children are in state schools and that this VAT is a 'gotcha' moment. Far more people are putting their energy into planning where their next meal is coming from than hating on private schools. The actual height of British children is declining as are other health indicators so really, people have more to worry about than this issue.
This report is so damning - https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jun/19/uk-children-shorter-fatter-and-sicker-amid-poor-diet-and-poverty-report-finds

@newmummycwharf1

You say "However, the fact that our family has access to options does not mean we are not aware of the lack of options for others. We speak up and out in our positions of influence and with our funds."

That sounds really interesting. I'd be really keen to know what your actions look like in practice and what kinds of improvements they have brought?

We run a foundation that provides holiday clubs free for kids in East London, we donate extensively to charities focused on children, we have 3 scholarships funding children from undeserved communities to uni fees at elite universities in London, we provide funding to community organisations such healthwatch. And also do even more in Africa where we are originally from

And we have a seat at policy tables in our professional capacity (without being outing and by we, I mean sibling and family by marriage).

That does not mean we should not pay taxes or demand more than anyone else. And I am acutely aware my views are from a different perspective as a first generation Brit but I see that as my superpower. There is more to the world than this Island and the cake we are all sharing can be much bigger....

I agree. This is the sound of a social contract cracking up. The arbitrary nature and cynical politics of it. The confiscation of huge sums of money from people simply because they prefer their children not to be educated by the state. Like Maoists they pursue the collectivisation of education. They want to stamp out any diversity at the alter of conformity. They want the children of the elite re-educated in their countryside which are State schools. Well, it won't work. It will store up huge resentment and that will come back double at some stage in the future. That confiscated money will make less than no difference to the black hole of UK public finances. Most likely the fictitious reasons dreamt up to justify it will be suddenly lower down the list of priorities once they get into government. It will be pissed up against some other wall. The Chancellor won't prioritise paying for the breakfasts of children of delinquent parents over whatever else is in the news. Meanwhile, after years of zero growth the polls collapse on Labour too and finally we will have an end to them.

I definitely don't agree with you calling parents delinquent and I am certainly not hoping Labour fails. We all lose if that happens

We need to hold government to account and resist the temptation of becoming us vs them; state school parents vs private or ex-private parents. Your tone comes across mean and uncaring.
So if we are resigned to zero growth under Labour, what are we accepting then? Another lost decade?? Then the kids we are spending time and money to educate inherit a basketcase of a country. Who does that serve?

Put aside this nonsense and get it together

“We need to hold government to account and resist the temptation of becoming us vs them; state school parents vs private or ex-private parents.”

@newmummycwharf1- perfectly put.

In any event this state vs private rhetoric is nonsense. My DCs go/went to outstanding state schools. It’s not a binary thing in reality, in terms of quality of offering.

There are now a lot of rich British billionaires with business here backing Labour. Trouble is a lot of them are resident in Monaco/Ireland/Switzerland type thing so personally saving their taxes big time!
We need a change of Government but the taxation system needs to be fairer and make all work pay properly. Dumping it all at the young professionals door just leads to exodus of talent there and low birth rate as well in a key demographic. And the lowest earners obviously need to be paid properly too/housing sorted.

Like all Western economies we have a hugely increasing welfare bill to support the elderly’s health and social care needs. We can’t fall into the trap of not making some of that means tested or our society will break down. It’s here where our politicians are being cowards.