Labour’s plans for VAT on Private Schools

[Busydadof2]

The Labour Party has proposed introduction of VAT on private schools.

In the scheme of things the money they will bring in from this is tiny compared with total expenditure on state schools, while it will drive more burden on the state system as some parents leave private schools. I think this is a populist ploy to get traditional Labour voters to vote for what is in any other sense a centrist party.

Have you considered signing this petition to make sure the policy gets scrutinised and the weight of public sentiment against it is known?

Change.org petition: Stop Labour from adding 20% VAT to private school fees and forcing kids to change schools

www.change.org/p/stop-labour-from-adding-20-vat-to-private-school-fees-and-forcing-kids-to-change-schools

Various perspectives from the signatories of this vote come to mind and resonate with our own situation, including this: “I work in a state school with over 30 in a class and oversubscribed. My 2 kids went or go to private schools and we have sacrificed loads to do this. We are NOT wealthy, many of the kids at the school I work at live in bigger houses and have much more disposable income than we do. We chose to send our kids to private school rather than live in a bigger house instead of our semi detached on a main road. We holiday in the UK every year and I work full time. I buy my clothes on the high street or in charity shops. Many parents at the school my kids attend are in exactly the same situation. I agree there are some very wealthy parents there too and the addition of VAT will not even make an impact on them, they will pay it without batting an eyelid. All this will do is push the kids like ours back into an already oversubscribed state system, increase class sizes even more and create a bigger divide as private education will become truly elitist.”

The billionaires look after themselves but the government want people to think certain policies are targeted at them/fat cat executives - couldn't be further from the truth.

I really don't care if billionaires are on their 4th yacht - as long as policies are introduced that promote aspiration, economic growth, less food banks. Actually, no food banks - how about that?! Better mental health staff retention and provision so more people are more productive. If all the state vs private energy was focused on that - we would be further along. And the politicians would know they can't play this silly games with us and get our vote that way

@Whatevers "Like Maoists they pursue the collectivisation of education. They want to stamp out any diversity at the alter of conformity."

What kind of diversity to you honestly think exists in the bubble of private schools?

Them: “It’s not Us vs Them!”
Also Them: “TAX THEM!”
Hilarious if it wasn’t tragic.

They want the children of the elite re-educated in their countryside

The Chancellor won't prioritise paying for the breakfasts of children of delinquent parents
So poor children have delinquent parents and private school parents are 'the elite'? You really have lost your grip on reality.

I've never voted Tory, but - can you name a European country with no decline in living standards in the last several years given covid and the war in Ukraine which affected everyone?
It would really help to try to analyse the issue then keep on repeating slogans

and how to fix this issue? "soak the rich"?

It's not just slogans - there has been some decline in living standards across most European countries, but (as the focus is on school-going children here) the UK ranks almost last in the list of wealthy countries fighting child poverty, coming in just above Columbia and Turkey. Child poverty levels in the UK are the worst among the wealthiest countries in the world. See UNICEF report card 18 Poverty in the Midst of Wealth (December 2023) - https://www.unicef.org/innocenti/reports/child-poverty-midst-wealth#report

I don't know, but maybe consider that the majority of the electorate care more about widespread poverty than 'envy' of the tiny percentage of kids who attend private schools or vilification of rich people.

@quantmum - yes child poverty here is horrific. However, at the same time our academic achievements in PISA studies went up and also poorer children were allowed in school during Covid, so actually we did well there.

What we do unfortunately have is an uneducated population who do not know how to rear their own children properly, too much screen time, terrible food, lack of exercise, lack of engagement with those children. A lot of that is down to piss poor parenting as well. It is not just about poverty. There are poor children with amazing parents as well and plenty of amazing state schools. It is far from binary state vs private, poor vs rich.
There are huge whole failed communities in this country lacking aspiration and a future for their children. A private school tax is not going to fix that and Brexit and Covid made those problems a lot worse. Many of these children do not even make it to school and the Government does not even have a grip on how many children are not even being educated in the first place at all.

”I don't know, but maybe consider that the majority of the electorate care more about widespread poverty than 'envy' of the tiny percentage of kids who attend private schools or vilification of rich people.”

@quantmum - of course this is all true. But this private school tax is another Brexit policy. It will lead to outflows and a lowering of the standard of living for all, not the opposite!

The more we remove from this country that is actually functioning and what attracts successful and rich people here in the first place, the more it is us as a whole that will suffer.

We had an amazing and UK specific deal with the EU in the first place. We are not special, what we need to look at is this British exceptionalism that we still harbour.
Why do we think we will get away with being the only country in the world that taxes education at 20 per cent without significant poor consequences? Why do we even entertain that idea? It is perplexing to me as someone although born British lived in various countries during the course of my life.

And the Tories' decimation of the flagship Sure Start programme made everything even worse in terms of parenting. They have clearly not been committed to addressing the root causes of child poverty - more tax from high earners hasn't found its way into tackling poverty.

Wow that is shocking. The demise of the Tories can't come soon enough.

I really don't think it will have the sort of massive widespread impact the way Brexit did - and as I keep saying - I don't think it will impact the likelihood of people voting for Labour and that's not about envy, it's about hope that a Labour government will be better for more people than the Tory government has been.

I can imagine more support for this petition (which is ostensibly what this thread is about) if it wasn't riven with the discourse about envy, spite, glee, ps parents working especially harder than everyone else, their taxes keeping the country going and so on. I might even have signed it! But ps parents who keep reverting to these silly arguments (envy, spite etc) are just alienating the majority of people who have no real skin in the game.

PS parents - if you actually want to be supported by people who don't feel affected, dial down the nastiness and try to actually put yourselves in the shoes of people who have no special interest in private schools.

I think so too. That report is interesting as it's assessing levels of commitment. Widespread poverty impacts everyone in society

not forgetting the champagne socialists, sorry!

I know SEN kids who have a scholarship to private schools. Im not saying it covers every single kid who needs it. Have you even tried to get into one, you'll be surprised at the funding you can get, even from your local council.,

I'd rather sign a petition for more investment in state schools. People who can afford private school fees are by definition not hard up. I could sacrifice until the cows came home and still it afford it.

Some people just really seem to do their best to alienate others

Proper champagne socialists won’t be pro VAT on children with SEN in SEN schools though, nor will they be pro Brexit.

Consultant in NHS. State educated. Couldn’t make state education work for children due to responsibility of Job, mental load and irregular hours and no available after school care for tweens/teens. Especially post covid no home schooling in our house, worked all the way through. Choice is drop to 50% half time and halve commitment to on call cover on a rota with gaps already worsening care for patients when we are already depleted and over stretched the same as my (female) colleagues with children in state. Or continue full time as better for society and professional provision. But have wrap around care for my kids. Similar to all of my full time (female) colleagues. Otherwise no sport, no bus home in a rural area , no pastoral care etc etc. well-being issue. No affordable private Ed with 20% rise (yes it does come with choices of what we can do as a family but that’s our choice) means glass ceiling back over many professional working women. Agree with levelling up. But not like this please. Many unintended consequences. Super rich will always be fine. I can’t do my job without my kids being looked after. I have tried. Honest perspective I work evenings weekends and full time during the week on top with significant level of responsibility. Broke me when kids not looked after.

@Tryinghardtodoitall I feel for you.

I'm a single mum with ds at a small independent. I have no family support, no help from ex at all. The school are the only ones that support me, are totally reliable. If I have to travel, he can occasional-board, if I get stuck behind a failed signal or a closed motorway, they give him his tea and I collect when I can.

Labour are so focused on the likes of Eton and Marlborough and the super-rich, it hasn't dawned on them that some of us using small local independents will lose our jobs.

The law of unintended consequences !!

This. Not understood.

Cry me a river!

And then this. A previous poster encouraged PS parents to "put ourselves in others' shoes". The reality is that this policy rests entirely on the choices of PS parents. Not a question of pity, just a realistic bit of critical thinking. "others' shoes" are not relevant. Our shoes are.

Don't cry a river for @Tryinghardtodoitall just notice that she's chosen a family set-up that works for her, and tearing it apart doesn't just harm her, but harms society in ways the Labour Party has yet to understand. If she goes part-time, the country is worse off by the economic output of 50% of a doctor.

Now somebody can come and say, as has been said before, she's replaceable, no harm done.

As others have said, rightly "nobody else really cares about this one way or other". Indeed, because AT BEST it isn't going to make a meaningful difference to state schools. So why are people like "I don't really care about the policy, but I also don't give a stuff about the harm to people like you" while simultaneously making out it's PS parents being divisive and nasty?

It's not just 50% of NHS consultant's time though and her taxes. It will cost taxpayer extra £6-8k pa to educate each of her kids.

Remind me please where these 40,000 extra NHS appointments a week are coming from? As mentioned on these and parallel threads a lot of GPs and consultants educate their kids privately, they won't be able to make 20% extra so forced to move to state. A lot of them in their early 50s and chose to retire or reduce hours dramatically

Who's going to cry a river?