Labour’s plans for VAT on Private Schools

[Busydadof2]

The Labour Party has proposed introduction of VAT on private schools.

In the scheme of things the money they will bring in from this is tiny compared with total expenditure on state schools, while it will drive more burden on the state system as some parents leave private schools. I think this is a populist ploy to get traditional Labour voters to vote for what is in any other sense a centrist party.

Have you considered signing this petition to make sure the policy gets scrutinised and the weight of public sentiment against it is known?

Change.org petition: Stop Labour from adding 20% VAT to private school fees and forcing kids to change schools

www.change.org/p/stop-labour-from-adding-20-vat-to-private-school-fees-and-forcing-kids-to-change-schools

Various perspectives from the signatories of this vote come to mind and resonate with our own situation, including this: “I work in a state school with over 30 in a class and oversubscribed. My 2 kids went or go to private schools and we have sacrificed loads to do this. We are NOT wealthy, many of the kids at the school I work at live in bigger houses and have much more disposable income than we do. We chose to send our kids to private school rather than live in a bigger house instead of our semi detached on a main road. We holiday in the UK every year and I work full time. I buy my clothes on the high street or in charity shops. Many parents at the school my kids attend are in exactly the same situation. I agree there are some very wealthy parents there too and the addition of VAT will not even make an impact on them, they will pay it without batting an eyelid. All this will do is push the kids like ours back into an already oversubscribed state system, increase class sizes even more and create a bigger divide as private education will become truly elitist.”

If fees do indeed go up by 20% we would struggle on til the end of primary then move house to the next town, where we would be in catchment for an excellent state comprehensive. Most of our friends would do the same. All this policy will do is ensure people 'pay' for their kids' education via the housing market rather than in school fees. It will do nothing to improve failing schools. The super wealthy 'elite' will be unaffected and carry on as normal, 20% uplift will not bother them.

No real benefit to anyone? Have you thought about what 1.6bn could fund??

It won't make the slightest difference to anything. Every public service has been so chronically underfunded for the last 14 years that that money will disappear instantly. Anyone who thinks this is the magic cure for the state system is dreaming. It'll go on as before. 1.6bn is I'm afraid nothing in the grand scheme of things. It might be the death of the smaller private schools, but not the Etons and Winchesters.

Well perhaps the elite will start to care about state provision if some of them have to consider using it

I can't see it mattering as the differences in state education are so bloody vast. Best school in our city with house prices beyond us - is lightyears better than my DC school - behavior wise the opportunities like D of E being run by them - clubs that actually run and I'm told actual qualified staff.

Private schooling is a dog whistle to some on the left - I don't care - I care about my DC education and other like then - so I view all this as a distraction.

lol, nope.

Yup - reality is this policy will squeeze a few out of private. Less than is thought because schools wont pass on the entire cost to parents. Those who get squeezed out will spend on housing - this will help the rich who live in these neighbourhoods. The extra money to spend on private tutoring will also abound. The good news is it will not level-down, which is what many who cant afford private schooling seem to want. The bad news is it wont result in improved state schooling - which is what we should all want. That is where the focus should be - how can government make state schooling so fantastic that few would see any value paying for private schooling? Nothing else matters

Um, Labour isn't in government? What can this petition actually do at this point?!

I wouldn't sign it anyway even if it weren't utterly pointless. I wonder what kinds of school those who think it will do anything went to.

If “most of your friends do the same” are you sure you will all get your kids in to the excellent comprehensive?

Private schooling is a dog whistle to some on the left - I don't care - I care about my DC education and other like then - so I view all this as a distraction.

Are you suggesting that people on "the left" and others who don't privately educate their DC don't care about their education? Most people who do care about their kids' education will be voting Labour/LD/Green etc because of the deliberate gross underfunding of the state education by the Conservative Party who couldn't give a toss about the education of the vast majority of children.

I always read these posts with interest and see the polarised views. We were in a strange situation of 1 on state and 1 private for different reasons.

State is not always the best option and we saw many families making a way to find fees etc by going without all sorts of things other families at state schools didn't or wouldn't choose to go without And that is their choice.

I do however think there may be more of a knock on effect than some realise. Potentially not initially where people will scrape by to ensure education isn't disrupted. It may mean fewer choose it going forward and there are implications.

Currently money is paid to state schools per child that age even if that child doesn't use it and goes private. More will use it. Thus this money is diluted.

Often people choose private to access selective schools. If they join the state system this will impact potentially places in grammar schools and top sets elsewhere and have a knock on effect. So some of those whose kids may have gone to grammar may not be able to now. Or get rop set places and need to settle in mid sets.

Not all private schools are full of what people consider posh kids. Indeed the schools that have £35k fees are the ones less likely to be affected. Often these kinds of fees are accessed due to generational wealth. It is those with lower more middle class salary achievable fees that are more likely to attract fewer kids, potentially have financial difficulties forcing some closures and those kids having to be given places elsewhere or the additional 20% simply placing that "purchase" out of reach when previously it was achievable.

I don't think the relatively small amount of VAT raised is the win many think it is (other than as a vote winning ploy).

Where's the petition to tax them as much as possible?

I work in government and yes it’s been chronically underfunded. 1.4bn would do a hell of a lot. The cost of fixing dodgy concerete in schools is “only” £140m so it would fund that entirely.

Signed. This makes me so angry!

Yep, especially the last paragraph

It’s such a bad policy

The infrastructure in this country is fucked entirely by a decade of Tory policies, so what do the sharp-elbowed middle classes do? Circulate a petition attempting to defend their bought privilege.

I'm clearly saying I want more political focus on state schools - which have massive including teacher recruitment - that where I want to hear ideas and know what the plans are.

The sector my kids are in - sector all my family's kids are in - and sector where every child I current actually know goes to.

Politics of envy form right us usually about benefit from left it private schools - in both case it's a distraction from actual problems - plays to hard core party faithful and ignore actual concerns of electorate.

So no I'm not saying the left don't care about education - clearly I'm not - I'm saying I don't care about private education at all - it's a non issue - it's an obvious distraction from educations many actual problems.

I know very well what the Tory have and haven't done - I'd personally like more a a reason to vote labour than Tory = bad - I know that already it's why I've never voted for them.

@Spirallingdownwards this bit in your post about school funding is incorrect

Currently money is paid tk state schools per child that age even if that child doesn't use it and goes private. More will use it. Thus this money is diluted.

Funding to schools is allocated in a number of ways, with AWPU (Age Weighted Pupil Unit) playing a big part. This is allocated on the number of children on roll as in actually attending the school. For example, if in my two form entry school, I have space for 60 pupils in Reception, but only 46 pupils join the school. I get funded for 46 pupils, not for 60.

The children are counted at the October Census point and funding follows these pupil numbers. More pupils means more money, that’s why London boroughs have been closing schools with falling or v small numbers on roll.

Why do people always claim it’s jealousy? Who in their right mind would be jealous of a divisive, 2 tier system designed to be elitist?
All our children deserve the very best education, not just those whose parents are wealthy enough, or who are clever enough to get a bursary, or who do t fit into comprehensive schools.
it’s not jealousy, it’s a desire for equality

I would like to know the Labour plan for state schools if (for whatever reason) the money from VAT on private schools does not raise as much as they want. And other parties. I can then compare to the Tory track record and vote my conscience. We all have to critically appraise what we are being told lest this goes the way of the £300m for NHS from Brexit!

If you think public services are underfunded surely that's an argument in favour of taxing the wealthy to pay for better public services, not against it?

Reading these comments is laughable.

Fact is private schools are a mixture of wealthy families who this policy won't affect (minority), and struggling families who this will.

Every Private school will be eligible for a massive VAT rebate, (for expenditure ranging from 3 - 8 years depending on type of cost capital expenses etc). Nowhere has any Labour MP, or the brainless mob who cheer this policy, stated any value this VAT rebate will be. It will be an enormous figure.

Separately a large proportion of boarders are from armed forces families who qualify first the CEA allowance.

The CEA costs the taxpayer around £80 million a year, so the VAT on this (which will be paid by the CEA/Government) is an additional £16 Million per annum!

Add this to the millions in VAT rebate claims, this policy will do little to generate additional net funding for the state sector.

This is before any private school kids require state school places, at further additional cost.

Trying to explain the commercial / fiscal implications to the type of person who buys in to this "Tax the Private School Rich" soundbite is futile. They don't want to understand it.

For the avoidance of doubt, around 40 percent of total school expenditure will qualify for a VAT reclaim going back years. Apply this to every school, and this shows me how we cannot trust labour with the country's finances.

I will be voting for Reform UK, who propose sensible tac policy (such as increasing tax free allowances to £20k) which will benefit everyone.

Jealousy is a cancer in the UK.

I will be voting for Reform UK, who propose sensible tac policy (such as increasing tax free allowances to £20k) which will benefit everyone.

Lol, ok then. There’s one born every minute.

That's for allocation to schools themselves yes. However there is an amount available to to DofE for every child of school age whether they access state education, are home schooled or privately educated.

@SouthCoastDad you were doing so well until you got to the part about voting Reform 🙈

@SouthCoastDad the fact that you are taken in by Reform’s tax plans show you have a very poor grasp of how taxation works but you crack on - every vote for Reform means the Tories are likely to lose more seats. Good luck!

(Amazing how the “politics of envy” is only an argument used by those who fear to lose - I prefer to look at the social democratic countries in Europe who understand how helping each other raises us all up, but you carry on with your “envy” argument).

@RedHelenB

You would be wrong

45% of secondary schools are using non specialist teachers to ‘teach’ maths

Govt missed target for secondary recruitment by 50% and inly recruited 17% of the physics teachers needed

There are at 2 secondary schools in my county that I know of that can not offer any STEM subject beyond GCSE due to lack of qualified staff