Labour’s plans for VAT on Private Schools

[Busydadof2]

The Labour Party has proposed introduction of VAT on private schools.

In the scheme of things the money they will bring in from this is tiny compared with total expenditure on state schools, while it will drive more burden on the state system as some parents leave private schools. I think this is a populist ploy to get traditional Labour voters to vote for what is in any other sense a centrist party.

Have you considered signing this petition to make sure the policy gets scrutinised and the weight of public sentiment against it is known?

Change.org petition: Stop Labour from adding 20% VAT to private school fees and forcing kids to change schools

www.change.org/p/stop-labour-from-adding-20-vat-to-private-school-fees-and-forcing-kids-to-change-schools

Various perspectives from the signatories of this vote come to mind and resonate with our own situation, including this: “I work in a state school with over 30 in a class and oversubscribed. My 2 kids went or go to private schools and we have sacrificed loads to do this. We are NOT wealthy, many of the kids at the school I work at live in bigger houses and have much more disposable income than we do. We chose to send our kids to private school rather than live in a bigger house instead of our semi detached on a main road. We holiday in the UK every year and I work full time. I buy my clothes on the high street or in charity shops. Many parents at the school my kids attend are in exactly the same situation. I agree there are some very wealthy parents there too and the addition of VAT will not even make an impact on them, they will pay it without batting an eyelid. All this will do is push the kids like ours back into an already oversubscribed state system, increase class sizes even more and create a bigger divide as private education will become truly elitist.”

I have always thought more grammar schools are a great idea but it was super unpopular when Teresa May tried to push for it. Surely if you have more, it wont have the effect of decimating nearby comps as currently happens in some areas?

I know various adults in my parents generation who passed the 11 plus but could not afford to go to grammar school.

Sorry what do you mean? Grammar schools resulting in low pupil numbers at comprehensives?

Participating in this thread has made me ponder something.

If we consider taxpayers who have no children, so don't receive child benefit, nursery vouchers or free state education - think if this as the baseline. They pay to contribute to an educated society without direct benefit.

If they are the baseline, perhaps VAT should go on all educational provision (private through to university), and the net cost to the taxpayer of a state-school place should be paid in full or part by the parents whose children are in receipt of that education.

This could be household means tested so will exclude those on free school meals and vulnerable children etc.

Perhaps if everyone took a little more ownership of education for their kids, instead of expecting the state to pay for all of it, we could invest our way to the best state school system in Europe.

We no longer live in your parents generation. State grammars are free.

My mother went to grammar school from a poor background and said both the pupils and teachers treated her like she was a thick poor person and were surprised she did so well in her exams at grammar school.

Well in that case, burn them all.

@Naptrappedmummy they were free then, there were still additional costs the poorest families could not meet. Transport costs, they had more expensive school uniform and required essential equipment such as slide rulers - it was a long time ago! The poorest families could not meet those additional costs.

Entirely agree. Spending on education can only be a positive, private schools produce many devoted public servants who don’t necessarily earn much but prop up the country and its economy with their work and skills

No - apparently in areas with good grammers, they cream up the top quartile or more, so the surrounding comps become very mediocre. That's what is often said

All university graduates will fund state education from the uplift in salary and resultant tax take arising from a degree. That’s kinda how it works - the state invests in education in the short term to reap the benefits in the long term.

Or do you think medical students, for instance, should stump up the full cost of their degree tuition since the current fees are a fraction of the actual training cost? How many prospective UK medical students would take on that level of debt?

Apprenticeships are a good way of accessing careers for those that don’t want to go to university / need a degree to develop / prove competency. But everyone’s taxes go into the same black hole, to fund all sorts of services that they may or may or may not take advantage of.

I could equally ask why the tax payer should subsidise private schools (bearing in mind that 50% are not charities) through tax concessions?

That’s the point of them though, I don’t see the issue there, how would it be better if the surrounding comps did take those pupils and they stagnated surrounded by others less intelligent or able?

What’s that got to do with anything now?

The fee rises for private school have been about 10% per year and somehow they haven’t such shop yet. Of course they should be taxed. It’s a luxury that continues to drive inequality and quite frankly there will be school places, just not in the most desirable locations.

@SabrinaThwaite

The private school sector is already subsidising the state sector, by freeing up valuable places in an overcrowded and under resourced environment. Notwithstanding the higher tax paid by parents, which is fair in progressive society.

Your point about degree and future tax contributions assumes they actually get a high paying job with their degree. There are a vast number of degree holders who cannot get employment. As such their degree experience provides no additional net tax take at all, quite the opposite when compared to someone in school leaving employment.

Medical training is a subject close to my heart. I believe Doctors and Nurses should be in receipt of a sliding scale rebate which repays all training costs after "X" amount of years NHS service.

An efficient NHS service is something everyone benefits from, underpinned by motivated and valued Doctors and Nurses.

I am already researching areas to move to for this reason. We live a bit outside the catchment for an excellent state school. It is a bit inconvenient, but we cannot deal with a 20% uplift over and above the normal increases. So moving is the only answer.

@SouthCoastDad I agree but at this point I honestly think some people would rather the country all suffered together rather than the minority suffering and the majority living normal or good lives. They’re crazed - truth doesn’t matter, numbers don’t matter, logic doesn’t matter, all that matters to them is feeling they’ve hit the wealthy where it hurts even if it leads to ramifications that actually make things worse in the long run. You see it on here time and time and time again. They’re numerically hopeless and whenever you point out the clear failings in their ideas (VAT would raise less than 1% of the education budget, ending non doms would raise only 2%), they get flustered and resort to attack the person, accusing you of delighting in child poverty or hating the poor and sick.

They’re essentially holding on to fairy stories that bring them comfort, nothing you say will change it, but I admire your efforts.

I suppose because not everyone can get in - tutoring is not accessible to the poorest etc. But I think that can be ameliorated by having more of them

People with money, even moderate amounts, will always find an advantage and there’s nothing we can do about it.

Couldn't agree with you more, they don't want to hear or understand anything outside of their echo chamber. It's almost tribal in nature.

I am going to put the phone down, leave this thread & grab a glass of wine to watch Love Island with my Daughter!

You have a lovely evening xx

That’s the premium for the ‘noble’ well-heeled state school advocates. Not only do they get to enjoy punitive policies imposed on the wicked privately paying parents but their houses around good state schools will go up even more in value!

@SouthCoastDad

Your point about degree and future tax contributions assumes they actually get a high paying job with their degree. There are a vast number of degree holders who cannot get employment. As such their degree experience provides no additional net tax take at all, quite the opposite when compared to someone in school leaving employment.

It’s obviously subject dependent, and some students will do a degree purely for interest / learning / to go into research and will not be high earners. Education and nursing degrees give a low but positive return. Research shows the average benefit to the exchequer is £100k for male students and £30k for women.

If you can not afford private school you will have to use a state school.
That is what happens. People make choices about how they spend their money.

That’s just looking at it completely backwards ffs.

It is in the best interests of everyone in the entire country, whether they have children or not, to have an educated population. And every child deserves an education and the right to make something of themselves, regardless of parental income. As a country we owe it to ourselves to ensure that state education is available, accessible and high quality so that when those childless people need doctors, or accountants, or engineers, or lawyers, or teachers, there is someone there to do that job.

Limiting a good education to those who can pay excludes some of the potentially brightest, most creative, most valuable minds that could benefit everyone. And creating a complex bureaucratic means tested system just erodes both any money saved and trust in the system.

But it’s not the fault of private schools that the state ones are garbage is it.