to ask why you wouldn’t sign the petition?

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The petition set up by Amy Desir (one of the women who self identified as a man to attend a men only swim session) is asking the government to consult women on privacy and dignity that could be removed or impacted by proposed changes to the gender recognition act.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

The petition is merely asking for debate - doesn’t it come to something when women have to petition the government to have to ask to debate their safety?

Most gender critical feminists recognise trans human rights but we don’t want their identity and wishes to be placed above our safety.
I posted on MN recently about my experience of living in a domestic violence refuge as a child and now I was terrified of men, a male bodied person presenting as a female in that safe space would have terrified me and impacted my PTSD more than the other experiences already have.

If you haven’t signed it why not? Please reconsider, if only so both sides can be heard. Of course signing isn’t mandatory and I’m not angry but I would be interested in hearing more.

If you would like to sign it, you can find it here
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118 - your details are kept private. Please consider sharing.

I have signed it - early on. Hoping many many more thousands will follow suit.

But we aren't asking for the right to stop people's souls presenting as female. We are asking for debate around access to spaces previously only available to people with vulvas being accessed by people with penises.

Sadly, your soul does not dictate your sex organs. A female penis, if you believe such a thing exists, is still a penis. It is still capable of rape, causing distress to some of the people in possession of a vulva and it is still responsible for increased testosterone causing the female penis owner to grow bigger and stronger than the female vulva owner.

I don't think women here know the absolute trolls they are defending

“Gender Nazi”

I’m a Sex Nazi if I’m anything. Sounds bloody dodgy as fuck, but hey.

This debate is so frustrating.

So many hiding behind intolerance of differences and then there's the other side who are desperate to appear liberal and accepting of all.

You can not please everyone. But you have to find the best way to allow trans woman to feel like they belong to the female community but also to provide safety for the biological female.

It's a shame but men are still a threat to women. If you've ever been assaulted as a woman (which is highly likely) the chances are you are at lest a little weary of men when you are in a vulnerable position and there is not much more vulnerable than a lone woman in the toilets.

Not to say 99% of these transwoman are not perfectly safe and actually just want to identify with who they truly are and I have a friend and she is a transwoman and I do not insult her feelings because as far as I'm concerned, she's a woman. But she still has a penis and so a stranger would not know she wasn't to harm her. The self identification issue also could mean men who don't identify as trans could go into the ladies toilets specifically for predatory reasons.

It's so hard to find the right balance in this situation. In an ideal world there would be a unisex toilet and a male and female toilet, but that would ultimately prove costly. I do think in swimming pools and large superstores etc this should take place though.

The soul inhabiting the body knows who it is and who am I to tell another person who they are. What would give me the right to do that?

Yes, I get that. You are coming from a place where there is no threat to your safety. Or to the safety of your loved ones.

You are not taking into account the people who could abuse new laws that would let them access vulnerable women and children.

I know it's hard to imagine that and, let's face it, no one really wants to. But if you say that men can legally be in places where women and children are in a state of undress, or any vulnerable position, you have to (maybe with sincere regret) acknowledge that those women and children are at risk.

All we want to do is talk about it. We want to express our fears and find a way that we can all live freely together without compromising our safety.

If you think that these are issues that need to be discussed please sign the petition.

Thank you.

pilf there are trolls on all sides of any debate.

Gender Nazis

Let's try again, WHY don't you want women to be allowed to DEBATE THIS AS SHOULD BE THEIR RIGHT IN A DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY?

Easy question.

Ive tried to sign it 3 times now. It keeps telling me I haven’t signed until I confirm by clicking an email. Except no email being sent? I’ve checked ‘junk’ too. So frustrating!

Signed it last week, glad it is up to 7000 plus signatures now.
Debate without being called a bigot or femi nazi would be nice!

flagnogbagnog

Check junk folder

I signed & shared it on FB.

It provoked an interesting discussion, mostly civil & considered.

I did get de friended by two people (both loudly calling themselves cis men & telling me not to be such a bigot). Oh & I got a messenger pm calling me a Nazi & telling me to hurry up & die, from someone I've never heard of - privacy on lock, but someone obviously screen shotted me.

I'm not convinced that I'm the one whose behaviour is problematic in this situation.

Just signing is safely anonymous. Sharing is where you open yourself up to abuse - which, frankly, has convinced me more than anything else that this whole discussion needs dragging into the light.

It is NOT hateful or bigoted to want women to be consulted.

But you have to find the best way to allow trans woman to feel like they belong to the female community

Why do we have to do that? Why can't we make the male community more accepting of varying gender presentations?

I have tried to sign it, I get to the bit that says check your email and click the link to sign this petition and the email never comes, have double and triple checked my email

I wonder if the people claiming this to be anti-trans have actually read what this is about.

Any man, (not transwomen), including sex-offenders will have the legal right to enter any women's space, and as long as he declares that he identifies as a woman, and you will not have any right to object

The self-id GRA proposal is dangerous to women, transwomen and children.
Transwomen need protection and they need support - this act is not the way to go about it and that is why we must discuss it.
That is ALL this petition asks for.

I've signed it. While I don't particularly want to publicise my views, I think that a consultation is not too much to ask, whatever your position is.

Noloudnoises when I gave birth to my last DC I was physically and verbally assaulted on the ward because I was covered in blood and my baby wouldn’t stop crying. That man was allowed to be there over night by virtue of his partner having given birth.
80% of violent crime (in the US, I don’t have the figures for the UK off the top of my head but I know it is similar) is committed by men (or male bodied people). What happens when they are allowed in more of our spaces? Do we just get assaulted and then report it? No one is going to fight male violence with those of us who have been assaulted, raped, abused, tortured?

You are incredibly naive.

If men want to harm women they will. They don't need to self-identify as women to do it. The type of man who would do that is so niche, surely? Most men who want to rape or sexually abuse women want to this AS MEN. It's about power over women, not becoming or imitating the sex you despise.

People who struggle with gender orientation have an ongoing struggle that most of us can't imagine. Why we equate this with the potential for predatory behaviour, I have no idea. Trans men are probably far less dangerous to women than the average citizen.

For those who are wondering what all the fuss is about....

sages.org.uk/publications/sages-factsheet.html

A debate is needed.

sages.org.uk/publications/sages-factsheet.html

I'm saddened it's only got 7000 odd signatures.

The Ched Evans going back to Sheffield Utd petition got tens of thousands in days. Yet this affects all women, all citizens.

Self ID legislation will make bad law - it will be be so open to abuse. It will negate women being able to define themselves as a biological category. It is legislation for men's rights.

Lucy Masoud put it beautifully on R4 this morning:

"It's about whether be base our laws on facts and reality, or whether we base them on subjective feelings, the feelings of men who happen to feel like a woman on any given day."

My personal opinion::-

There's no black and white!

Yes, a male person who identifies as a women should be treated as a women.

A female person who identifies as a male should be treated as a male.

However, there is nothing to stop a male predator who seeks male victims, in a male only vicinity.

There is nothing to stop a female predator who seeks female victims, in a female only vicinity.

So why do people automatically assume a male will identify only to seek out female victims?

At the end of the day a predator can be old or young, black or white, male, female or trans, rich or poor etc and if you look at cases, they fall into all these categories.

And I do apologise if the term 'victim' offends, I am struggling to find what word would be appropriate to use. So if there is a more suitable term I will ask HQ to change it.