to ask why you wouldn’t sign the petition?

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The petition set up by Amy Desir (one of the women who self identified as a man to attend a men only swim session) is asking the government to consult women on privacy and dignity that could be removed or impacted by proposed changes to the gender recognition act.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

The petition is merely asking for debate - doesn’t it come to something when women have to petition the government to have to ask to debate their safety?

Most gender critical feminists recognise trans human rights but we don’t want their identity and wishes to be placed above our safety.
I posted on MN recently about my experience of living in a domestic violence refuge as a child and now I was terrified of men, a male bodied person presenting as a female in that safe space would have terrified me and impacted my PTSD more than the other experiences already have.

If you haven’t signed it why not? Please reconsider, if only so both sides can be heard. Of course signing isn’t mandatory and I’m not angry but I would be interested in hearing more.

If you would like to sign it, you can find it here
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118 - your details are kept private. Please consider sharing.

If men want to harm women they will. They don't need to self-identify as women to do it. surely it is far easier for them if they gain access to women only spaces particularly places where the women are more likely to be vulnerable.

I hate to boil this all down to rape but if we are going to have people using the “ive been raped and I don’t mind argument” let’s go with it for a moment.

There are 33,270,400 women in the UK. Rape Crisis suggest 1 in 5 women aged 16-59 has experienced sexual violence. So that’s 6,654,080 women in this country alone. I imagine a significant number of those women would have an issue with losing sex segregated spaces (prisons, hospitals, rape and domestic violence centres, losing the ability to request a female nurse etc.) - if it was only 1/4 of that 6.6million it would number 1,663,520 women. Why do these women not matter? Why do sexual violence victims need to be “re-educated” (as some facilities no say) or denied services?

@flagnogbagnog and @sobeyondthehills if it hasn’t gone to spam/junk/social then some people have set up/used a different email address and that works. Thanks for trying!

I think men and women need to respect that there is not just man and woman. There is so much more than that, just like there isn't just straight and gay.

snowsky a predator is far more likely to be male. That's why it's women who are shouting loudest about this. We don't want males to have unrestricted access to places that were previously safe from men. We want the law to protect against misuse of self ID

If men want to harm women they will. They don't need to self-identify as women to do it.

No but identifying as a woman would allow them access to places where women are. Places that they would normally be challenged for being in. If they can self id, they can just rock up with their male bodies, their male clothes and their male physique and no one would be able to challenge them. This opens up a whole new area for them to abuse.

The type of man who would do that is so niche, surely? Most men who want to rape or sexually abuse women want to this AS MEN.

Yes! Absolutely! They will want to look like men, dress like men, act like men but on the occasions that they want access to vulnerable women to assault and abuse, they want the right to say that they identify as a woman. Just for that day. Just for that occasion. Then they will go back to living their male lives. AS MEN.

This is the difference between genuine transwomen and men who self id to commit crime. All we want to do is talk about it. If you think that this is worth discussing at all, please sign the petition.

Thank you.

At the end of the day a predator can be old or young, black or white, male, female or trans, rich or poor etc and if you look at cases, they fall into all these categories

That's correct but statistics show they are predominantly male and their victims overwhelmingly female.

Of course, a rapist is a rapist with or without a dress and self id but why make it easier for them?

And what about the autogenophiles who get sexual kicks out of identifying as a woman? You're handing them their wet dream on a plate with self id.

just like there isn't just straight and gay.

These are completely different things. Gender and sexuality shouldn't be lumped together in the way they so often are.

g1itterati

"Trans men are probably far less dangerous to women than the average citizen"

Only if the women agree with them.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/26/three-sought-60-year-old-woman-beaten-transgender-row/

Surely in most cases, if a man rocks up at a women-only swimming club, dressed as a man to all intents and purposes, the women would just laugh at him and tell him to go away?

Ched Evans going back to Sheffield Utd petition got tens of thousands in days

Football. Male territory - he made them look bad. Men were invested in that, everyone agrees there was no good side to that, cut and dried.

This is women and “people who want to be women” in blokes minds. It’s terrifically unimportant to them.

Why it’s not more important to all women I’m not sure.

Signed

Clicky! Forgot brackets.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/26/three-sought-60-year-old-woman-beaten-transgender-row/

Because I don't want to be involved in this argument.

Of I agree gender and sexuality is not the same thing but I'm illustrating they are both fluid. There isn't male with male bits and female with female bits.

Signed and shared.

I am truly frightened that women are being discouraged from debating this issue, by being branded transphobes. It's not transphobic to worry about where this legislation could lead and to be quite keen on speaking up about it.

No, g1itterati, they won't.

That is what the whole debate is about. Self id removes any of the prerequisites to identifying as a transwoman.

Agghhh I posted to soon wrote a long post then it disa

If a man (obviously male bodied and presenting as male) rocks up in a women-only space now, he can be challenged, a woman can call security, report it or whatever, have him removed.

If Self-ID becomes law, we will no longer be able to do that.

I personally have never seen a man in a public toilet or changing room. And I'm quite happy about that - but if I did, I would want to be able to challenge him. If self ID passes, all he will have to say is "I identify as a woman". And there is nothing we can do. This law will essentially eliminate women-only spaces. That includes hospital wards, changing rooms, women's sports teams, women's STEM bursaries, AWS, rape crisis, refuges, prisons.

I actually hadn’t seen it, which is surprising coz I’m all over this shit normally.

So I’ve signed it now