to ask why you wouldn’t sign the petition?

[CircleSquareCircleSquare]

The petition set up by Amy Desir (one of the women who self identified as a man to attend a men only swim session) is asking the government to consult women on privacy and dignity that could be removed or impacted by proposed changes to the gender recognition act.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

The petition is merely asking for debate - doesn’t it come to something when women have to petition the government to have to ask to debate their safety?

Most gender critical feminists recognise trans human rights but we don’t want their identity and wishes to be placed above our safety.
I posted on MN recently about my experience of living in a domestic violence refuge as a child and now I was terrified of men, a male bodied person presenting as a female in that safe space would have terrified me and impacted my PTSD more than the other experiences already have.

If you haven’t signed it why not? Please reconsider, if only so both sides can be heard. Of course signing isn’t mandatory and I’m not angry but I would be interested in hearing more.

If you would like to sign it, you can find it here
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118 - your details are kept private. Please consider sharing.

Signed. I work in a women only space with vulnerable women. We would not exclude trans women but as an organisation we do need to have some say in who is appropriate to enter that safe space without being called transphobic! Open discussion is needed to decide how to meet everyone’s needs fairly.

They give women and feminism a bad name?! You mean because we don’t just shut up and roll over?

SpringHen I don't think names are made public and, regardless, given the wording of the petition I think any right-minded employer would be hard pressed to be able to criticise anyone signing it (if they could we really are living in Orwell's 1984) unless you work for Mermaids or a similar organisation. I have an employer who is right-on pc etc etc but I would be fine with them knowing I had signed this petition (other activities/posts I would not do in my name)

Absolutely, MrsFogi, I think we need to get a grip here. Some people will be too worried to sign, particularly Social workers etc, but it should be fine for the vast majority of people. And it IS confidential.
The TRA's are not the Stasi. I work for and with some very "Right On" people , but I have signed, and do not expect any comeback from it at all.

I don’t care. If there are all these men out there just bursting to get into women’s changing rooms they’ll find a way whether it’s through self ID or not

I don't understand what you mean here Chaos. How will they legally be entitled to use those spaces, schools, hospitals, prisons, sports, etc?

Open discussion is needed to decide how to meet everyone’s needs fairly.

Agreed

Signed.

Words fail me over this idiotic comment
I totally fail to see how trans women going about their lives like women is so fucking dangerous. And even if it was a bit dangerous, I'll take that in exchange for people's freedom to be themselves.

You are free to take that risk for yourself - but who do you think you are to demand that someone else must be put in danger?

I have just read the whole thread and the same question has been asked and asked but no-one has answered It, "why is it transphobic to have a debate on how self-ID can protect shared spaces for all concerned. How can the law protect women in a prison from a convicted male rapist who chooses to self ID and move to a womens prison for example? It's not transphobic to identify this as a potential problem and debate how this could be prevented. Anyone who things no man will ever do this see example here:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/up-to-half-of-trans-inmates-may-be-sex-offenders-26rz2crhs

The law needs to be very carefully written and this will only happen with an appropriate debate. The debate is not about whether trans women and men exist or whether they have certain rights the debate is about how self-ID will work in practice

petition.parliament.uk/privacy

Link to privacy and cookies for petitions.

Signed. Thanks for sharing it.

Signed. Whatever my inner feelings (which are in fact as male as my body) I have no claim to be where women are changing - and of course there are places such as refuges and women's prisons where the same applies. It's not rocket science.

@MorningsEleven
Being offensive doesn't stop you from looking like a bigot, it just makes you appear like an offensive bigot.

Calling people names makes your argument look weak. Do you honestly imagine that everyone who signs this is a bigot? I'm certainly not claiming bigots don't exist- I have a trans family member, so I have a little experience; but most people are not like that.

Do you imagine the transexuals on MN, or campaigning for this, are bigots?

This is a bad law, being pushed by people who use name calling as an argument. If you think self ID is the right solution then engage with the details of people's concerns and explain why.

To people saying they're concerned about signing the petition due to concerns over jobs etc. these petitions have to meet strict standards set out by the Petitions Committee within the House of Commons. They are approved by the Petitions Committee before they 'go live'.

The petitions are recognised as part of the democratic process with the UK and any employers seeking to cause problems for individuals would have the full support of the Petitions Committee. It is taken very seriously.

But all that is irrelevant as if you are merely signing the petition your employer has no way of finding out as it is anonymous.

the debate is about how self-ID will work in practice

Agreed. No one in government or any of the transactivists seem to come up with anything on this. How do you implement what they want and still look after the vulnerable. This needs to be discussed. It is in any other sort of Government Policy, otherwise there are 'Unforseen Consequences'.

People in doubt should read that Deptford People Project statement, it is heartfelt and powerful. Not to mention utterly disgusting that these young people forcing this agenda have NO idea that they are messing with people's lives.

Good man, Andrew. Baffled that actual women have an issue with it.

As part of consultation I'd like to hear pros of self-ID.

Because it's reactionary and hysterical. And yes, it is transphobic, as are all these horrible threads. Women don't need to be so bloody petrified of the bogey man/woman sneaking into the changing room to perv on you. It's just not going to happen.

Us women should welcome these marginalised people into the fold and support them.

Aren't they pretty self evident? For the users, I mean

Are you taking the piss, noloudnoises?!

Noloudnoises

Really? Does that include the ones who say we have smelly vaginas? Or the ones who like getting cat called? Or the ones who abuse lesbians who won't sleep with them? Or are these just bogey man tales too? Psst, they're not.

Signed.

Noloudnoises, have you read the thread? Changig rooms and loos are a tiny tiny part of the concerns.

I too, don't care who is in the changing cubicle next to me but I am not in a position to speak for rape survivors or women of certain religions who may feel different. In my eyes, those women deserve as much consideration as transgendered women in these new laws.

Now, moving away from changing rooms and loos, what about prisons and sports? I keep asking but no-one is answering.

If a self-id'd transgender woman is charged with assaulting another woman, should she be housed in a women's prison? Since transwomen have already been housed in women's prison should we not be asking what safeguards are going to be in place once self id comes in?

If a self id'd transwoman stands at 6ft4 and weighs some eighteen stone, is it okay for her to compete against women is sports? Transwomen are already competing against women, so should we not be asking what safeguards will be in place when self id comes in?

Ditto refuges, rape crisis centers, homeless shelters, hospital wards etc etc etc.

Whose rights come first? A muslim woman's, a rape survivors, a trafficked, homeless teen or a transwoman?

The petition is about making sure women are consulted when it comes to balancing these rights in the new legislation.