to ask why you wouldn’t sign the petition?

[CircleSquareCircleSquare]

The petition set up by Amy Desir (one of the women who self identified as a man to attend a men only swim session) is asking the government to consult women on privacy and dignity that could be removed or impacted by proposed changes to the gender recognition act.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

The petition is merely asking for debate - doesn’t it come to something when women have to petition the government to have to ask to debate their safety?

Most gender critical feminists recognise trans human rights but we don’t want their identity and wishes to be placed above our safety.
I posted on MN recently about my experience of living in a domestic violence refuge as a child and now I was terrified of men, a male bodied person presenting as a female in that safe space would have terrified me and impacted my PTSD more than the other experiences already have.

If you haven’t signed it why not? Please reconsider, if only so both sides can be heard. Of course signing isn’t mandatory and I’m not angry but I would be interested in hearing more.

If you would like to sign it, you can find it here
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118 - your details are kept private. Please consider sharing.

why is this transphobic

being on this thread and asking that question can be considered transphobic.

m still very much in favour of mixed gender spaces with cubicles where appropriate. I don't feel the need for some protected sanctuary in what is a functional place, i just need to get in and pee or change or whatever it may be

Okay, but what about prisons and sports?

Remember, this isn't about the petite, pretty transwomen you see on Youtube, it's about women like Hannah Moncey playing against your daughters or granddaughters would you be okay with that?

Because anyone can walk into any barhroom/changing room/space anyway and trans people have been sharing spaces for years.

If you're determined to rape or abuse women you'll do it regardless. Denying basic human rights for a tiny section of society won't change that. It won't make you less safe.

another transphobic thread. Frankly feminism should be renamed the bigots of transphobia and all the anti trans threads should be posted there.

I don’t want to sign the petition because I A, don’t want to be associated with such bigoted attitudes that it represents (and yes, saying you want discussion is transphobic because anyone that goes against your discussion point is challenged, ridiculed, shot down in flames and told to start their own petition if they don’t agree then.) and B, I don’t care. If there are all these men out there just bursting to get into women’s changing rooms they’ll find a way whether it’s through self ID or not. Funnily enough that doesn’t seem to have happened.

These discussions give women and feminism a bad name.

Less than 10000 people have signed. Doesn’t that tell you something? And no, it’s not that poor little women are uninformed.

And PMSL at anyone who thinks it’s anonymous. Facebook data breach anyone? You really think they’re the only ones?

I agree with @dinosaursandtea so won't be signing.

On what other issue would all women agree? Why should they all agree on this one? It's naïve to expect a huge response on almost any issue.
Personally I try to be a little more tolerant of vulnerable grouos in our society such as trans* people.

If this petition is just about encouraging debate, why on earth would anyone lose their job over it? It's clearly not just about that, is it?

No one would lose their job for signing- clearly. Encouraging a debate is exactly the point of the petition, it's worded very carefully to avoid slipping anywhere near bigotry.

The problem comes when you have a few nutters who throw the word transphobe around to discourage debate. If you are in a sensitive job, that can make it hard to be associated with this issue.

Signed. Because if we are going to make a big change in how society works, we need to know about it, and it should be discussed.

Free speech and debate.

Is that a threat Chaos?

@SpringHen I don't think names are made public and, regardless, given the wording of the petition I think any right-minded employer would be hard pressed to be able to criticise anyone signing it (if they could we really are living in Orwell's 1984) unless you work for Mermaids or a similar organisation. I have an employer who is right-on pc etc etc but I would be fine with them knowing I had signed this petition (other activities/posts I would not do in my name).

ChaosNeverRains

So you have no issues with the removal of free speech, that a woman can be arrested for stating facts?? You don't mind women losing their language or men taking sporting achievements from women? You don't mind there is no platform for debate or women being silenced? You don't see any of these issues?

Because anyone can walk into any barhroom/changing room/space anyway and trans people have been sharing spaces for years.

If a man, who looked like a man, dressed like a man, walked and talked like a man, exposed his penis in the female only changing room of the local gym, I would be able to complain to staff.

That has not been happening for years for that very reason.

However, if self id goes ahead and all he has to do is say he is a woman, I would not be able to complain to staff.

That's what is different. And that is what we want to talk about. If you think that this needs to be openly and respectfully discussed please sign the petition.

Thank you.

I'm still very much in favour of mixed gender spaces with cubicles where appropriate. I don't feel the need for some protected sanctuary in what is a functional place, i just need to get in and pee or change or whatever it may be

Many, many, places do NOT have cubicles. Our swimming club uses two school pools. The changing facilities are 2 large rooms. These schools also run swimming classes for the general public.

Swim England's advice is that Transgender people should use the space they identify with, and should not be made to use separate facilities. How will the "It's all fine, because MY pool/sports centre has cubicles" work for our club?

@smilethoyourheartisbreaking

I'm willing to bet I know far more about gender dysphoria than you. I'm not naive; I'm informed, tolerant and sympathetic to the needs of a marginalised section of society.

Being offensive doesn't stop you from looking like a bigot, it just makes you appear like an offensive bigot.

Signed

Frankly feminism should be renamed the bigots of transphobia
saying you want discussion is transphobic

Well I've completely changed my mind. How can I disagree with such erudite analysis?

anyone that goes against your discussion point is challenged, ridiculed, shot down in flames and told to start their own petition if they don’t agree then

You mean argued with? How very dare they?

Signed!

Thank you to all those who are signing.
If you have people you trust to share with them please do - I do also understand if you don’t quite feel there yet.

💪

These discussions give women and feminism a bad name.

In what way?

Is that a threat wtf are you on about?

YAAAAAAAWN blah blah trans shit again

Signed.