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Original poster

to ask why you wouldn’t sign the petition?

725 replies

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 21/03/2018 18:24

The petition set up by Amy Desir (one of the women who self identified as a man to attend a men only swim session) is asking the government to consult women on privacy and dignity that could be removed or impacted by proposed changes to the gender recognition act.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

The petition is merely asking for debate - doesn’t it come to something when women have to petition the government to have to ask to debate their safety?

Most gender critical feminists recognise trans human rights but we don’t want their identity and wishes to be placed above our safety.
I posted on MN recently about my experience of living in a domestic violence refuge as a child and now I was terrified of men, a male bodied person presenting as a female in that safe space would have terrified me and impacted my PTSD more than the other experiences already have.

If you haven’t signed it why not? Please reconsider, if only so both sides can be heard. Of course signing isn’t mandatory and I’m not angry but I would be interested in hearing more.

If you would like to sign it, you can find it here
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118 - your details are kept private. Please consider sharing.

OP posts:
PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 22/03/2018 12:56

What other reason would a man self identify as a woman if not for abusive purposes? Surely even if they really did feel female (whatever that means) but were still clearly male and masculine I'm appearance there is still no need for them to use female facilities. They can just use the men's.

Transwomen have been using female facilities for years. This is not about them.

NoSquirrels · 22/03/2018 12:57

its marginalising a minority group

@simplysleepy I am interested in this. Why do you think the current legislation needs to change?

puglife15 · 22/03/2018 12:57

How about this puglife?

That person was peering over a changing room cubicle which could happen in any swimming pool and lots of clothing stores where they already have mixed facilities... I really don't see how the fact he claimed to be a female - if indeed that was the case -has any bearing on it. No one is saying he can't be prosecuted for it??

My school had segregated changing rooms and there were holes in the wall between the boys and the girls apparently. I'm also reasonably sure - although I will never get proof - there were hidden cameras in there.

In other words, if you want to perv on people in changing rooms you don't need to pretend to be trans to do it.

NoSquirrels · 22/03/2018 13:00

@AccidentalKylie
other trans people - who might not be able to medically transition, or might not be able to afford gender recognition certificate - ARE transphobic, yes.

What would stop someone from being able to medically transition? I genuinely would like an example I can understand. I’m not necessarily talking surgery, but hormone treatment is pretty standard fur most trans people, is it not?

On an affordability issue, if you’d like to campaign for better funding and support for trans people I’ll be happy to support that, definitely.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 22/03/2018 13:00

So you think the trans people who are concerned about how this is affecting themselves and other trans people are bring transphobic? You think the heart breaking posts here from both trans people and parents of trans children about how this whole thing is hurting them are being transphobic? Really @AccidentalKylie?

user1469914265 · 22/03/2018 13:00

I really can't stand how fucking transphobic this is.

It's all middle fucking class, small minded women, of a certain age who are totally terrified of anything 'other'.

How many of you who bang on about trans have ever actually spoken to someone who is?

SuitedandBooted · 22/03/2018 13:00

Going back to my previous post, what would you expect the owner/manager of the facilities to do g1tterati, bearing in mind that Swim England, for example, follows Stonewall-approved advice which states that anyone who doesn't agree needs to be "educated"....

Wonder if they use a little red book for that...Hmm

KittyPerry77 · 22/03/2018 13:01

AccidentalKylie You're honestly trying to compare some people being uncomfortable around disabled people with women being uncomfortable about having transwomen (which can mean a person who bears a penis and testicles) in the changing room when they're naked? It doesn't matter how nice the men are. Most women would hate to have to share a changing room with their Dad, FIL, brothers etc. The current situation is that women and girls have been provided these spaces for decades. Why should they now not have that anymore?

NoSquirrels · 22/03/2018 13:02

@user1469914265

You have NO idea what race or social background I am.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 22/03/2018 13:02

*being not bring

NoSquirrels · 22/03/2018 13:06

Trans rights intersect with women’s rights.

So we need to discuss how to make things fair for everyone.

That is NOT TRANSPHOBIC.

Phonic = fear of.
I am not afraid of trans people Confused
I am in favour of a fair deal for all.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 22/03/2018 13:06

Just a thought but if you care about trans rights and about trans people then why don't you actually try listening to the ones who are against self ID? Why don't you listen to them when they explain calmly and rationally how self ID is hurting them instead of just brushing them aside as having internalized transphobia?

KittyPerry77 · 22/03/2018 13:06

user1469914265 Yes, I have spoken to a transwoman many times as we used to be neighbours. Of course she is an individual, but for the record she was friendly and involved in the local (non-trans-specific) community. I don't really see what your point is. I have spoken to and love many men but they don't belong in women's sports, changing rooms, refuses or prisons just like non-transsexual transwomen don't.

donquixotedelamancha · 22/03/2018 13:09

@user1469914265

It's all middle fucking class, small minded women, of a certain age

I'm none of those things. Well I am of a certain age, obviously. Everyone is.

How many of you who bang on about trans have ever actually spoken to someone who is?

Worked with a number of young people who vary within the full range of gender non-conforming. Have a lovely cousin who's a trans woman. Very much in favour of equal rights for and combating discrimination against, trans people.

Still don't think self ID is a good plan.

AccidentalKylie · 22/03/2018 13:09

What would stop someone from being able to medically transition? I genuinely would like an example I can understand. I’m not necessarily talking surgery, but hormone treatment is pretty standard fur most trans people, is it not?

I mean, 18 month waiting lists would be one thing.

For trans women - because that's who we're talking about here, because that's who we're always talking about here - as with anyone taking estrogen, the increased risk of cancer, osteoporosis, heart disease, circulatory issues might put some people off, or put some people out of the running entirely (if you had significant issues, your doctor might not prescribe you estrogen, for example). So. That.

Bombardier25966 · 22/03/2018 13:11

I won't be signing because of all the nasty transphobic voices I see on here. You're no better than any other group of bigots. Well done, you've opened my eyes to the bigotry faced by trans people just trying to get on with their lives.

Own goal. Well done.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 22/03/2018 13:13

Own goal You vastly over estimate your own importance, dear.

g1itterati · 22/03/2018 13:14

Suited - you can complain about inappropriate behaviour, be this by male if female, but not about someone's self-id.

The kind of man who identifies as a woman while still dressing and living to all intents and purposes as a man will be extremely rare. Abusers don't need to bother, in fact most abusers go to great lengths to go under the radar - to blend in with societies "norms"- e.g. "the great dad", "he couldn't have done it, the quiet man next door!" etc.

If a man self-identifies as a woman simply to get into a changing room or something, he might as well walk around with a flashing sign over his head - "Look out for me, here I come".

Apart from this, I would think there could be all sorts of reasons why men struggle with their gender and identity. Unless you've walked in their shoes, you can't begin to understand.

Terfragette69 · 22/03/2018 13:14

Bombardier25966

Interesting, do you also respond to the trans bigots? Those who claim they are better than actual women, or those that threaten to rape and attack us physically......... Thought not......

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 22/03/2018 13:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AccidentalKylie · 22/03/2018 13:14

Interesting, do you also respond to the trans bigots? Those who claim they are better than actual women, or those that threaten to rape and attack us physically......... Thought not......

No. Because they don't exist.

Oxfordblue · 22/03/2018 13:19

I'm not sure what's being asked here, so forgive me if this is incorrect...

A) a woman can says she's a man & enter a male swim competition ?
B) a man can say he's a woman & swim in a woman's competition ? (Won't he beat everyone because he's physiologically stronger? Confused)

The above means that potentially women are in the same race as men which is bad because some women are afraid of men?

Surely if you're dressed as a woman but have a penis you're a man & should swim with men? And vice Versa.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 22/03/2018 13:20

Now I know for sure you're on a wind up Kylie Grin

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 22/03/2018 13:23

@TruScum

Fancy giving us a hand here?

littlevoiceofsanity · 22/03/2018 13:23

Signed.

Self ID needs to be discussed.

Allowing ALL men whether trans or not into segregated female only spaces cannot be a safe or good idea just to accommodate a tiny number of men who want to "pass" as women.
Women should feel safe in toilets, changing rooms, hospitals, refuges, Girl Guides and prisons away from male violence.
Trans women competing against women is not fair.
Muddling data and crime statistics is not fair.
It you take away the legal definition of woman then she can no longer argue for equality in any area as she no longer "exists".
Woman is being classified as a sub set of man. Below transwomen.