to ask why you wouldn’t sign the petition?

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The petition set up by Amy Desir (one of the women who self identified as a man to attend a men only swim session) is asking the government to consult women on privacy and dignity that could be removed or impacted by proposed changes to the gender recognition act.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

The petition is merely asking for debate - doesn’t it come to something when women have to petition the government to have to ask to debate their safety?

Most gender critical feminists recognise trans human rights but we don’t want their identity and wishes to be placed above our safety.
I posted on MN recently about my experience of living in a domestic violence refuge as a child and now I was terrified of men, a male bodied person presenting as a female in that safe space would have terrified me and impacted my PTSD more than the other experiences already have.

If you haven’t signed it why not? Please reconsider, if only so both sides can be heard. Of course signing isn’t mandatory and I’m not angry but I would be interested in hearing more.

If you would like to sign it, you can find it here
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118 - your details are kept private. Please consider sharing.

Fruitcorner123, as I have already said I don't know who these women's organisations are, Mothers Union, Women's branch of the National Front, the local Labour/Liberal/Conservative club women? I wouldn't vote for an MP I had never heard of and if I didn't know their views on important issues.

There are references in the petition. Does this mean you wouldn't sign any petition unless you personally knew the person who started It?

But even if you take the hyper-masculine men out of the equation, very very few "normal" men would ever be prepared to utter the words, "I identify as a woman." It's a ridiculous thing to say and would be interpreted as such. They would just not be taken seriously.

I can see why you might think that gl1tterati, but it's not the case.

nounequalrights.com/information/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/The-Threat-to-Women-and-Girls-Illustrated-1.pdf

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39337805

Signed and shared.
Why shouldn't we talk about this? Why is discussing how the rights of women and trans women work in practice transphobic?

A pp picked on me saying a predator could be anyone, and they said stats show most are male.

I'm in complete agreement.

However, I personally know of 12 men that could be 'considered' victims of Abuse. They include an 11 year old that got a 16 year old pregnant (first time he had sex), a 9 year old that was asked to 'suck' his baby sitters breasts and a 15 year old who had 'sexual intercourse' with his friends mum.

Now they are all older, mature and parents themselves, they think wtf? But at the time it was 'bragging rights'.

If a male had done these things the outcome would be different.

Ian Huntley is ......Liane Huntley now I believe.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking you might be happy to "vote" via this petition for unknown people with unknown views to represent you. I don't. The OP asked why you wouldn't sign the petition, I gave my reason and I don't actually need you to decide if that reason is OK.

gl1teratti
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/up-to-half-of-trans-inmates-may-be-sex-offenders-26rz2crhs

Why shouldn't we talk about this? Why is discussing how the rights of women and trans women work in practice transphobic? But the petition isn't asking for us to discuss it, it is asking for women's organisations to discuss it. I wouldn't sign without knowing who these people who would be representing us would be.

But even if you take the hyper-masculine men out of the equation, very very few "normal" men would ever be prepared to utter the words, "I identify as a woman." It's a ridiculous thing to say and would be interpreted as such. They would just not be taken seriously.

They would not have to!

Don't you get it.

If men have the right to access female only spaces, Mr. Hyper-Masculine can waltz into any area where there are women in a vulnerable state and they will not be allowed to challenge him.

Sure they will look at him. They will acknowledge his male physique.

But the law will prohibit them from questioning why he is there or complaining about him.

They will have to accept him and he will not ever have to utter those words 'I identify as a woman'

That is the whole point of the petition.

If you think this needs to be discussed, please sign it.

Thank you.

What part of starting a petition is undemocratic?

he will be prone to ridicule and he knows it.

No. It will not be legal to say anything or ridicule him. It would be seen as a hate crime.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking well signing the petition is a positive vote for it, votes aren't just in general elections you know. Where is the democracy in these random groups representing us? If I was told who the groups are, what they believe, what they want they I could decide if I want them to speak for me. I don't think it is democratic for them to represent my views without my say so.

peach it's asking for women to be consulted. Isn't It? Have i missed something?

What part of starting a petition is undemocratic? No part of it, the undemocratic thing is groups speaking for me when I am not allowed to know who they are or what they believe.

Fruitcorner, they aren't going to come round and speak to all of us, the petition says they would consult with women's organisations. It doesn't say which groups or what their views are.

I don't sign petitions which clearly come with an agenda attached I find repugnant. And this petition is clearly one that comes attached to some fairly dubious groups with some views on social control I'm not comfortable with, who want to use "debate" as a way of spreading bigotry and hysteria about how queues of sex offenders are waiting outside women's loos.

Psychologically, for a rapist, identifying as female would negate the drive to rape the "other," "lesser" or "victim" which is their perception of female. Rape is about power and control. I doubt many rapists would get their kicks out of having to merge with women to gain access to them. A few maybe, but that type of predatory behaviour would be very niche, surely? In a group of women in a female space, any man would generally feel marginalised, ridiculed or isolated - by women. Is a man who despises women likely to want to put himself in that scenario, when he can just attack / groom a lone victim by so many other methods?