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Petitions and activism

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Original poster

to ask why you wouldn’t sign the petition?

725 replies

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 21/03/2018 18:24

The petition set up by Amy Desir (one of the women who self identified as a man to attend a men only swim session) is asking the government to consult women on privacy and dignity that could be removed or impacted by proposed changes to the gender recognition act.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

The petition is merely asking for debate - doesn’t it come to something when women have to petition the government to have to ask to debate their safety?

Most gender critical feminists recognise trans human rights but we don’t want their identity and wishes to be placed above our safety.
I posted on MN recently about my experience of living in a domestic violence refuge as a child and now I was terrified of men, a male bodied person presenting as a female in that safe space would have terrified me and impacted my PTSD more than the other experiences already have.

If you haven’t signed it why not? Please reconsider, if only so both sides can be heard. Of course signing isn’t mandatory and I’m not angry but I would be interested in hearing more.

If you would like to sign it, you can find it here
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118 - your details are kept private. Please consider sharing.

OP posts:
Proudtrout · 21/03/2018 22:05

Yep, ok, fair enough, I have gone away and researched further and have signed.

In my defence, there has been so much anger/negativity/resistance to what I see as a positive change in terms of gender identity that I find it hard to filter the sense from the hyperbole.

And I am, on occasion, quite grumpy and prone to forgetting to sensor myself.

NotAnotherNoughtiesTune · 21/03/2018 22:05

I also worry for the actual transwoman being given hate if these laws came through, due to no fault of her own. Because if a couple of cases of men raping women in public bathrooms is in the news, the trans community will likely be blamed instead of the rare male self ID-img or a transwoman doing the assault.

Things are never simple.

NotAnotherNoughtiesTune · 21/03/2018 22:06

I meant not just smile.

I find self ID a very odd move in the first place.

peacheachpearplum · 21/03/2018 22:06

I won't sign as I don't want "women's organisations" representing me. I don't belong to any women's organisations and I don't know which organisations they would be talking to or what the views would be put forward. I have an MP I voted for and I am happy for democracy to work.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 21/03/2018 22:07

What sort of bits do males have, Notanothernoughties?

NoSquirrels · 21/03/2018 22:07

It’s a petition to ask for debate on how women’s rights and trans rights intersect.

It upsets me we’re so meek and mild that even the most blandly worded petition can be the basis of slurs and name-calling.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

Fairenuff · 21/03/2018 22:07

However, there is nothing to stop a male predator who seeks male victims, in a male only vicinity.

There is nothing to stop a female predator who seeks female victims, in a female only vicinity.

So why do people automatically assume a male will identify only to seek out female victims?

It boils down to statistics. There more attacks by males on both males and females.

Although interestingly, if self id goes aheads, all those statistics will be compromised,

Think about it.

NotAnotherNoughtiesTune · 21/03/2018 22:08

Signing by the way.

Snowysky20009 · 21/03/2018 22:08

It disappeared (sorry phone playing up)

To ad from my previous post:-

HOWEVER, I do belive that women should have rights. For example who attends to their personal care. If they do not want a man who identifies as a women to work them when they escaping domestic violence by a man etc etc.

There are loads of examples whereby I belive the right of the women trumps the right of a man who identifies as a women.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 21/03/2018 22:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Fairenuff · 21/03/2018 22:10

I won't sign as I don't want "women's organisations" representing me.

So you don't want any of those rights that women have campaigned for over the years?

Ok then.

NoSquirrels · 21/03/2018 22:11

@proudtrout Smile

@peacheachpearplum I understand- please consider finding out what your MP believes and raising the subject with them.

lenaperkins · 21/03/2018 22:11

I signed a while ago. I haven't put it on my fb page, although I have contacted friends who have been critical of feminists' stance on fb and filled them in. And posted a few gender critical pieces without comment. One of the reasons I think the petition hasn't taken off, is that women just don't know about it. Had to go for a check today and chatted to the nurses - the were bloody horrified. I left a written link to the petition. Keep TALKING. Talk at the school gates, over wine, wherever you can. I have just tried to post on netmums too. It's a bit weird because it gets moderated. Let's see if it gets posted.

Fairenuff · 21/03/2018 22:11

Ah Proudtrout, am proud of you. It takes a lot of guts to take on board what people say, read up on it and come back with a change of heart.

This is what people don't get. It's not any kind of phobic. It's just asking for a reasonable and respectful discussion.

g1itterati · 21/03/2018 22:12

I just think the kind of men who would want to rape women are at the opposite end of the "gender behaviour spectrum" than those who would potentially "debase" themselves by identifying as women - even for 5 minutes. Look at the toxic masculinity rapists in prisons - can you imagine any of them ever being prepared stating they are female. It's the polar opposite to the violence and aggression they identify with. They despise women as "lesser." To them "female" means "victim." They would not wish to self-identify as a victim. That is not the psychology of rapists in the vast majority of cases.

Snowysky20009 · 21/03/2018 22:12

And by the way- I have signed

peacheachpearplum · 21/03/2018 22:12

Where is the democracy is some self appointed women speaking for me. They haven't asked me what I think, who are these organisations? who decides which women's organisation will be involved? If you want people to sign a petition they need all the information, I'm certainly not signing up for someone unknown to speak for me.

Fairenuff · 21/03/2018 22:13

One of the reasons I think the petition hasn't taken off, is that women just don't know about it

Yes, that. And also that they think it will never happen. They think that they won't have to share their showers at the gym with a male bodied female person with a penis.

SuburbanRhonda · 21/03/2018 22:13

“@flagnogbagnog and @sobeyondthehills if it hasn’t gone to spam/junk/social then some people have set up/used a different email address and that works. Thanks for trying!”

I found the same on my iPhone and iPad. It worked fine on my laptop.

Fruitcorner123 · 21/03/2018 22:14

I have an MP I voted for and I am happy for democracy to work.

Peacheachpearplum what if you didn't vote for your mp? What if the other lot got in and you have completely opposing views? Democracy isn't just about 1 decision very 5 years it's about speaking up for what you believe in all year round and being allowed a voice. It's about not being censored and freedom of speech. It's about debate which is all this petition is calling for.

peacheachpearplum · 21/03/2018 22:15

NoSquirrels, I have a brilliant MP, she is intelligent and in my opinion one of the best MPs I have ever had the pleasure to vote for. I am happy with how she represents my views on many issues, including this one.

Frequency · 21/03/2018 22:16

g1itter, do you understand they wouldn't need to dress as a woman, wear make-up and a wig or change anything at all about their presentation. They can simply utter the words "I am a woman" and be allowed access to women's safe spaces.

Also, not all rapists are as you describe, not even most. The majority of them are 'normal' men, with careers and/or wives and children.

g1itterati · 21/03/2018 22:16

Sorry about grammar errors above. What I meant was that if a man is prepared to self-identify as a woman (even just for 5 minutes to get into a women's gym or something) he will be prone to ridicule and he knows it. This type of man is less likely to have internalised the kind of toxic masculinity that drives most rapists.

Terftastic · 21/03/2018 22:17

gl1tterati - there have been many reported cases of men - charged with rape - who have done just that. Identified as women to get into women's prisons. It's already happening.

What makes you think they wouldn't do this? Predatory men will go to extraordinary lengths to gain access to their victims. Remember Jimmy Saville's charity work? He wasn't doing it for the charity.

Fairenuff · 21/03/2018 22:17

Surely in most cases, if a man rocks up at a women-only swimming club, dressed as a man to all intents and purposes, the women would just laugh at him and tell him to go away?

You would think, wouldn't you g1itterati but self id laws would mean that the women would not be allowed to do that.

If you think that this should be part of the discussion, please sign the petition.